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Topic: GPO + Tracktion

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  1. #1
    New Member Fox's Avatar
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    GPO + Tracktion

    Hello all,

    I'm new to GPO. I just bought a copy, and it is being shipped as I write this.

    I use Tracktion as my primary DAW, and I'm wondering about other who use GPO and T2 (or 1) and how they create orchestrations with the two? I will be using GPO to learn about classical orcherstration and also to write parts for pop songs.

    I love T2, but what it lacks for me is a proper notation tool. I imagine that OvertureSE might come in handy for this, but I'm wondering about the workflow aspect (i.e., must I continually bounce between Overture and T2)?

    Just looking for ideas and such.

    I did a search on this forum, and found some enthusiastic Tracktion users. That was cool.

    I'm loving this board. What an awesome community. Very impressive.

    Cheers,

    Fox

  2. #2

    Re: GPO + Tracktion

    You can start looking the nice GPO and Tracktion Tutorial by Eric Endress.
    Then you can search for old posts with the word "Tracktion" in the forum.

    Im using Tracktion 1.6, the free version, and really i like it. But as you said, the lack of notation, even basic, is something annoying. But my workaround is to connect my notation software (the one you like: Overture, Finale, or any other with midi output) to Tracktion trough MidiYoke or Maple virtual drivers (the same way that you connect it to GPOStudio, with the advantage you can add more fx and tweakings to each channel, in GPOStudio, you only can add Ambience Reverb) i can add effects, tweak the volumes, etc in Tracktion. When finished the score, import the file in Tracktion, and the fx and mix balance between volume are there, ready.
    Well, just my way to work. Ideally, i would like to make all my work in a notation package only, but they are not still, and dont know if some day they will, so versatile like a sequencer.
    Marcelo Colina

  3. #3

    Re: GPO + Tracktion

    I'm a Tracktion 2 user as well, Fox. I write in Finale and transfer the midi file to Tracktion and tweak it their.

    Marce, Tell me more about:
    But my workaround is to connect my notation software (the one you like: Overture, Finale, or any other with midi output) to Tracktion trough MidiYoke or Maple virtual drivers
    How do you set that up? I prpbably should do a search on the net and look up MidiYoke and Maple virtual drivers. I have tried MidiYoke a long time ago when it was new but not with a notation program. Do you actually write in the notation program and have it play through Tracktion? Tell me more!
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

  4. #4

    Re: GPO + Tracktion

    I am another Avid Tracktion fan/user!

    I am like Rich. I tend to, unless I am just in the mood to improvise and play everything in live, compose in notation (Finale 2007) first, export it as a MIDI file, IMPORT that into T1 and go to town editing the heck out of it till I am 100% satisfied.

    I like Tracktion because of its low low LOW power needs on my CPU. It allows several instances of stuff that other DAW's make my computer GROAN at (Cubase SX, Digital Performer, etc).

    But - I would not recommend Traction if you are sharing your files with anyone else. (Well, the MIDI aspects) For some reason, T1 and T2 MIDI files end up being like 2 times as fast tempo-wise than they should, and that makes syncing within other DAW's hard and quite complex if you are using your Tracktion stuff WITH the other DAW's trtacks as well. I look at Tracktion as my END app. It is where everything goes when I am ready to do final stuff. I know there are other DAWs that are more powerful, more deep, have features better suited to aid you in your workflow, BUT.... And I will say this as proudly as I can.... You can get the SAME RESULTS (notice I didn't say easier or faster or better editing and processes, but the final end result), given you are willing to take the time, that you can with the other Big Boys. I have done all my rendering in T1. No one listens to that and says, "hmm. Jerry's using Tracktion still? Pity!"

    I am not a big fan of Overture when it comes to using it with OTHER apps. It is fine as a notation and sequencing style editor for its own internal MIDI and CC data, (well, it DOES work very well with GPO Studio), but as far as using it alongside Tracktion, I have never been able to do it successfully.)

    Finale, though - at least the Mac version, has its own MIDI outputs called "interapplication" outs. Which kind of works much like Maple, etc. and gives you up to 4 which can handle 16 MIDI channels each. You can assign each of these to a track in Tracktion. Sometimes, before I had Finale 2007, I would play my Finale tracks and record them into Tracktion in lieu of MIDI export and Import options.

    My workflow is usually Finale first-->MIDI--->Tracktion--->rendered audio file.

    My little half penny's worth

    Jerry
    MacBook Pro Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5ghz 4GB Ram OSX 10.5.8
    Korg TritonLe & MAudio Oxygen 8
    T3, Logic 9, DP7, K2, GPO4, Strad, Gofriller, C&MB, Finale 2010

    My Website!
    New Film Scores!
    Also, Ever think about having your very own personal documentary? See my new Website!
    http://www.mylegacyfilm.com


  5. #5

    Re: GPO + Tracktion

    JerryW said:

    My workflow is usually Finale first-->MIDI--->Tracktion--->rendered audio file.
    That is exactly how I do it, but Jerry has stated it in his message so much mor concisely. Nice Job Jerry!
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

  6. #6

    Re: GPO + Tracktion

    Quote Originally Posted by RichR
    I'm a Tracktion 2 user as well, Fox. I write in Finale and transfer the midi file to Tracktion and tweak it their.

    Marce, Tell me more about:

    How do you set that up? I prpbably should do a search on the net and look up MidiYoke and Maple virtual drivers. I have tried MidiYoke a long time ago when it was new but not with a notation program. Do you actually write in the notation program and have it play through Tracktion? Tell me more!
    Rich, you can set up Tracktion to be a "host" of whatever you want to load, and then in Finale, assign MIDI channels to match your tracks in Tracktion. You can easily "play" through Tracktion as a host of sorts, with Finale. And when you are ready to really edit, "record" those tracks in realtime while playing in Finale. Then you can edit them in Tracktion. (something I would ALWAYS recommend to notation users who are looking for more realistic renderings). Once you have your MIDI just they way you want it, render to audio tracks and do all the EQ, reverb, fader automation, ect. ect. so that is really comes through realistically. Finale's HP is great, but I personally like to have more control over every aspect of my GPO renders.

    Anyway -This "Finale playing through Tracktion" process is how I dealt with using GPO along side non-GPO instruments. (before Finale adopted the NI AU (VST) incorporation. Which allows all NI libraries to be loaded and used as outputs.

    Sorry to be so verbose, but this is something I actually know something about. unlike most of the time, when I just ramble.

    Jerry
    MacBook Pro Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5ghz 4GB Ram OSX 10.5.8
    Korg TritonLe & MAudio Oxygen 8
    T3, Logic 9, DP7, K2, GPO4, Strad, Gofriller, C&MB, Finale 2010

    My Website!
    New Film Scores!
    Also, Ever think about having your very own personal documentary? See my new Website!
    http://www.mylegacyfilm.com


  7. #7

    Re: GPO + Tracktion

    Quote Originally Posted by RichR
    I'm a Tracktion 2 user as well, Fox. I write in Finale and transfer the midi file to Tracktion and tweak it their.

    Marce, Tell me more about:

    How do you set that up? I prpbably should do a search on the net and look up MidiYoke and Maple virtual drivers. I have tried MidiYoke a long time ago when it was new but not with a notation program. Do you actually write in the notation program and have it play through Tracktion? Tell me more!
    Bassically is what Jerry said. An step by step can be:

    1-Install Maple virtual drivers (or MidiYoke, but they have some issues with XP to some users)
    2-Open your notation software.
    3-Assign your "MIDI OUT devices" to Maple drivers. You can have up to 12 Maple drivers in your system. Thath´s enough in most situations, since you can use 8 instruments of GPO in each Maple output. (i never tryed more than 8 instances)
    4-Open Tracktion. Go to the settings and select in the midi devices input the same Maple drivers you selected in your notation program.
    5-Now, in your notation program, create a new project. Assign each track/staff to output to a Maple Midi driver. I use for the first track/staff channel1, for the second, channel 2, etc. You can only use the first 8 channels of each Maple driver.
    6-Now, create a new project in Tracktion. In the first track, load GPO. At your right (in tracktion 1) you have the "midi-in" devices. Drag and connect it to the first track.
    7-Now, setup your kontakt player, choosing the instruments for each channel.
    8-you can repeat this for the second track connecting the second Maple driver output.
    9-Remember you need enable the "end-to-end" to hear what the notation program is playing.
    10-if you want to use rack feature, for fx on each channel of GPO, look the Eric Endress tutorial i mentioned in the second post.

    It looks complex, but is not really, maybe a little time to learn what are you routing, but after you catch the idea, you are done. (i believe that in most host today support this routing too)
    The main advantages i found doing things that way is that you:
    -Can add any VST fx to any instrument and tweak it separately.
    -You can use any vst fx or any other VSTinstrument (you can play GPO with any other sample library, drum machine, synth, etc, in VST format).
    When you finish your score, you import it, and your tracks already will have the fx you want, and the final touch trough the piano roll can be done.

    A good idea can be ilustrate it with screenshots, that make it more easy.
    Marcelo Colina

  8. #8

    Re: GPO + Tracktion

    Marce, That was VERY well written.

    I couldn't have put it better myself, except I use Mac, so my process is just a bit different, but really the same. (rather than Maple, I use Finale's Interapplication ports) - but same thing.

    Nicely explained directions.

    Jerry
    MacBook Pro Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5ghz 4GB Ram OSX 10.5.8
    Korg TritonLe & MAudio Oxygen 8
    T3, Logic 9, DP7, K2, GPO4, Strad, Gofriller, C&MB, Finale 2010

    My Website!
    New Film Scores!
    Also, Ever think about having your very own personal documentary? See my new Website!
    http://www.mylegacyfilm.com


  9. #9

    Re: GPO + Tracktion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry W.
    Marce, That was VERY well written.

    I couldn't have put it better myself, except I use Mac, so my process is just a bit different, but really the same. (rather than Maple, I use Finale's Interapplication ports) - but same thing.

    Nicely explained directions.

    Jerry
    Thanks! Sorry i missed to say this way is in windows, good is very similar in Mac too.
    A missed to say that is a time saver to me is to create related TEMPLATES. I mean, after you route all, save a template in your notation program with the same name that in Tracktion. So, when you open, by ex, "GPO string quartet" in your notation proggie, you only need to look in Traction for the same name saved model, and your routing is done, not need to repeat all the processes.
    Marcelo Colina

  10. #10
    New Member Fox's Avatar
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    Apr 2006
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    Alexandria, VA
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    Re: GPO + Tracktion

    Hi Marce, Rich, and Jerry,

    Thanks for the replies!

    I have actually used midiYoke to work with my old cakewalk program, and I got it to work, so that might be my best approach. At the time I did this, I was looking for good notating options (workarounds really) to add to Tracktion, which I absolutely love (and I'm not really game for spending $400+ on a new DAW.

    Now the need for notation has been upped, because of recent purchases (of Kontakt 2.0, Akoustic Piano, and GPO) and because my interest in orchestrating has jumped lately as I've gotten back into studying guitar more closely.

    Cheers,

    Fox

    [EDIT:]

    P.S.

    Here are the instructions that a fellow Tracktioneer ("bear") gave me about hooking up a notation program (in my case, Cakewalk Pro, which bear refers to as "CW") with T2:

    1. Start CW and Tracktion

    2. Start new file in CW and new project in traction

    3. I have many midi devices on my machine. For simplicity I am going to only enable one IN and one OUT in tracktion. midiyoke2 will be my IN, and midiyoke1 will be my OUT.

    4. While in the midi setup screen and with midiyoke1 (output) highlighted, go down to control field and click "send midi timecode". I think midi clock would work also, but for now let's just use timecode.

    5. Go back to track screen in tracktion, and click on the "timecode" button. Check 30fps

    6. Still in the timecode box make "send MMC" point to your OUT (midiyoke1) and make "respond to MMC" point to your IN (midiyoke2)

    7. That is it for tracktion

    8. Go to CW3.0/settings/midi devices. Again, I have many midi devices. for simplicity I am going to only allow CW to have 3. 2 inputs, one from my keyboard, 1 from tracktion for MTC. And 1 output, to send data to tracktion.

    So I have IN USB keystation for my little keybord,
    midiyoke1 in for receiving from traction and midiyoke2 for sending to traction. Click "move selected devices to top so the midiyoke2 is at the top of the list.

    9. CW3.0/settings/clock brings up a check box. Check SMPTE/MTC then OK

    10. Now press record in CW. It should say "waiting for smpte/MTC

    11. press play or record in tracktion. Cakewalk should "chasing MTC" and start...

    12. Always leave yourself a couple of empty measures at beginning of song for lock up time...

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