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Topic: A very Newbie question about GS3 Ensemble

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  1. #1
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    A very Newbie question about GS3 Ensemble

    But I could sure use some help!

    I realize this is probably a "are you really that ignert?" question, but I have exhausted my resources trying to figure it out. I have searched the manual, I have looked over most of the tutorials on ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ and watched most of the videos. Most of that stuff talks about the editor and I don't think it applies to my problem.
    I have GS3 Ensemble. I am trying to create an "ENSEMBLE" of a 1st Violin, a 2nd Violin, a Viola and a Cello. Should be simple enough, right? Well, in Ensemble I am using the Sonic Implants Ensemble Strings Con Sordino.gig
    I open it and load:
    Sonic Implants Ens Strings Con Sordino R
    into Channel 1 of GS.
    I am using Sonar as a REWIRE host. I have my MIDI data on a track, I have set my OUTPUT of the MIDI track to GIGA3, I have set my channel to 1: Sonic..., my bank to 0 and my patch to 1 (GS shows the INSTRUMENT for the entire patch to =1)
    My problem is that everything I send to GS with MIDI data is in a range of C1 thru C7 and there is nothing that distinguishes any of the notes between Violin, Viola, Cello, etc.
    If I open this giga file in the editor, I can see that this instrument actually has the following dimensions:
    1st Violin
    2nd Violin
    Bass
    Cello
    Viola
    and each of those have dimensions with different velocity levels and "REL" - (which I'm not even sure what that is).
    OK, all this for my question: How do I distinguish each "instrument" (DIMENSION) in my MIDI track? If I want the 1st Violin to play and the 2nd to rest, how do I know what I'm sending to GS is actually for the 1st Violin?
    I'm sure this is something only newbies don't understand. Thanks in advance for your help.
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  2. #2

    Re: A very Newbie question about GS3 Ensemble

    Hang in there Beagle! ....Frankly, I'm not sure if i can help you but i will try.

    So basicaly what you are saying is that all your instrument are loaded in one track(1 slot of GS3) right?..if it's the case, turn off the stack instrument option. You will find it in about the middle of the screen.

    You need to load your instrument separatly if you want to control them individualy, the 1st violins in slot 1 of GS3, the 2st violins in slot 2 of GS3, violas in slot 3 of GS3 etc...and in Sonar you will control the 1st violins in track 1(set to ch.1), you will control the 2st violins in track 2(ch.2), etc...

    I don't use Sonar, and i don't use rewire so I'm not sure if i can really help you... But you can ask anyway.

    I hope that was helpfull for you!

    Good luck!

  3. #3
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    Re: A very Newbie question about GS3 Ensemble

    Quote Originally Posted by geronimo001
    Hang in there Beagle! ....Frankly, I'm not sure if i can help you but i will try.

    So basicaly what you are saying is that all your instrument are loaded in one track(1 slot of GS3) right?..if it's the case, turn off the stack instrument option. You will find it in about the middle of the screen.

    You need to load your instrument separatly if you want to control them individualy, the 1st violins in slot 1 of GS3, the 2st violins in slot 2 of GS3, violas in slot 3 of GS3 etc...and in Sonar you will control the 1st violins in track 1(set to ch.1), you will control the 2st violins in track 2(ch.2), etc...

    I don't use Sonar, and i don't use rewire so I'm not sure if i can really help you... But you can ask anyway.

    I hope that was helpfull for you!

    Good luck!
    Hey, geronimo, thanks for the quick reply!

    Actually, that's not what's going on, I guess I didn't explain well enough.

    If I open this gig file in the editor, I see the following properties:
    • String ensemble.gig __________________GIG 3.0 FILE
      • Sonic Imp String Ens Con Sordino__INSTRUMENT
        • 1st Violin Vel 1_______________DIMENSION
        • 1st Violin Rel 1_______________DIMENSION
        • 1st Violin Vel 2_______________DIMENSION
        • 1st Violin Rel 2_______________DIMENSION
        • 2nd Violin Vel 1_______________DIMENSION
        • 2nd Violin Rel 1_______________DIMENSION
        • BASSES Vel 1________________DIMENSION
        • BASSES Rel 1________________DIMENSION
        • BASSES Vel 2________________DIMENSION
        • BASSES Rel 2________________DIMENSION
        • Viola Vel 1__________________DIMENSION
        • Viola Rel 1__________________DIMENSION
        • Viola Vel 2__________________DIMENSION
        • Viola Rel 2__________________DIMENSION
        • Cello Vel 1__________________DIMENSION
        • Cello Rel 1__________________DIMENSION
    And there are a lot of other "DIMENSIONS" listed under this instrument, but I hope this makes the point clear enough.

    Since these are DIMENSIONS of the instruments and not instruments themselves, I cannot load them individually into a channel (at least I don't know how to do that if I can). The INSTRUMENT is an ENSEMBLE and I don't understand how to program the MIDI data to an ENSEMBLE instead of an individual instrument. Or I don't understand how to separate the DIMENSIONS into separate channels if that's what I need to do to program the MIDI for the ensemble.

    So the "instruments" aren't stacked at all, the only instrument loaded into GS into channel 1 is the top level listed above as INSTRUMENT - the ensemble.
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  4. #4

    Re: A very Newbie question about GS3 Ensemble

    O.K. The editor is where you, as the word says, edit instrument. Now i don't really use the editor to tell you the truth, i just load the instrument directly in GS3 and that's it...So my guess is if you want to load only part of an instrument(let's say 1 octave) then what you would have to do is open the editor and delete the part of the instrument that you don't want, save the instrument under a different name(that's very important because otherwise you will loose that instrument), and then close the editor, and load the your instrument you've edited directly in GS3 to use it.

    Again the editor is only there to ''edit''sound/instrument, this is not where you load to do the midi stuff...

    And you were asking about ''REL'' earlier. Well this is part of the instrument, REL stands for release trails(as in reverb, or the ambience in the room). That's means that they had more that one mike to record that sample, one in front of the instrument, and a couple more farther in the room to cath that ambiance, in stereo in this case...Not that you already have some instrument
    in your SISS that have no release trails, look out for NR at the end of the name of the instrument. At least there are some with NR in my SISS GS3
    format. I don't know about GS2.

    Hopefully this will be helpfull to you, and sorry for the late reply, i got busy.

    P.S. I know this is not fun, but i suggest you read both SISS and Giga Studio's manual...And keep asking question, that's what this place is here for .

    Good luck!

  5. #5
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    Re: A very Newbie question about GS3 Ensemble

    Thank you again for the reply. Don't apologize for "getting busy"! I understand! But apparently I'm still not making myself clear.

    I am not trying to use the editor. I was merely looking in the editor and seeing the different parts of this instrument.

    I am loading an instrument from Gigastudio 3 Ensemble into channel 1. There is no stacking. Channel 1 has 1 instrument in it. The instruments name is: Sonic Implants Ens Strings Con Sordino R

    This instrument has a range on the scale from C1 to C7 and carries the sounds of 1st Violin, 2nd Violin, Bass, Cello and Viola.

    This is a typical "ENSEMBLE INSTRUMENT" in the GS3 Ensemble collection.

    I can send a C1 and a C7 at the same time and I get a sound out that sounds like a violin playing C7 and a sound out that is probably a Bass playing C1.

    When I send a C4, for example. I get a sound out that is some "violin class" instrument sound. How do I know that I'm getting a 1st Violin, a 2nd Violin, a Cello or a Viola or a Bass since they all share that note in their range?

    Thank you for your patience. I apologize if I have not been clear on what my problem is.
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  6. #6
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    Re: A very Newbie question about GS3 Ensemble

    Also - what is SISS?
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  7. #7

    Re: A very Newbie question about GS3 Ensemble

    Beagle,

    Sounds like you want to have the various string instruments loaded (stacked) on one MIDI channel and be able to play each instrument in some pre-defined, or dynamically defined range. The instruments you're talking about aren't set up that way out of the box and going into the editor and messing with dimensions won't do it.

    Do it like this:

    1. Get all your instruments stacked on a MIDI channel. I think you have this.
    2. Go to the pulldown on the stack master and select Stack Properties
    3. You'll see all your stacked instruments. From here you basically have two choices to do what you want to do, depending on how you want to perform.
    a) If you want to define a key region for each instrument, drag the blue triangles for that instrument to define the rage. You can set this up for each instrument such that they don't overlap each other.
    b) If you want each instrument's whole range available, but you want to tell the sampler when to play each one:
    - set the "Instrument Selector" to "Keyswitch"
    - press "Learn"
    - click a low and a high key (out of all instruments' playable ranges), with a number of keys in between that corresponds to the number of instruments on your stack
    - Now you've created a keyswitched stack. Notice that when you play one of the keys in the range you defined above, one of the instruments in the stack has a light on the left that comes on. That's the instrument that should be making sound.

    - G

  8. #8
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    Re: A very Newbie question about GS3 Ensemble

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamera
    Beagle,

    Sounds like you want to have the various string instruments loaded (stacked) on one MIDI channel and be able to play each instrument in some pre-defined, or dynamically defined range. The instruments you're talking about aren't set up that way out of the box and going into the editor and messing with dimensions won't do it.

    Do it like this:

    1. Get all your instruments stacked on a MIDI channel. I think you have this.
    2. Go to the pulldown on the stack master and select Stack Properties
    3. You'll see all your stacked instruments. From here you basically have two choices to do what you want to do, depending on how you want to perform.
    a) If you want to define a key region for each instrument, drag the blue triangles for that instrument to define the rage. You can set this up for each instrument such that they don't overlap each other.
    b) If you want each instrument's whole range available, but you want to tell the sampler when to play each one:
    - set the "Instrument Selector" to "Keyswitch"
    - press "Learn"
    - click a low and a high key (out of all instruments' playable ranges), with a number of keys in between that corresponds to the number of instruments on your stack
    - Now you've created a keyswitched stack. Notice that when you play one of the keys in the range you defined above, one of the instruments in the stack has a light on the left that comes on. That's the instrument that should be making sound.

    - G
    Gamera, thank you very much for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it.

    But I'm afraid I'm still not making it clear what the problem is.

    I am NOT stacking any instruments.
    I am not editing any instruments.

    I have ONE instrument loaded into ONE channel - NO STACKS
    The name of that instrument is Sonic Implants Ens Strings Con Sordino R

    This ONE instrument has a range of C1 to C7. It is an ENSEMBLE of STRINGS. It is one of the sample libraries included in GS3 ENSEMBLE. And is very typical of all the libraries for GS3 ENSEMBLE.

    How do I program MIDI for a single INSTRUMENT which is an ENSEMBLE of STRINGS?

    Remember that I am using GS3 ENSEMBLE, NOT GS3 Orchestra. The sounds of the Ensemble are grouped together under ONE INSTRUMENT. They are not stacked.

    But I simply cannot figure out how I am supposed to program the MIDI for an ENSEMBLE all at once under ONE INSTRUMENT.

    This is something that should be fundamentally inherent to the use of GS3 ENSEMBLE. Sending MIDI commands to an individual instrument is simple. There are no instructions anywhere that I can find which will tell me how to send MIDI commands to a single instrument which is an ENSEMBLE OF SOUNDS.

    Again, I thank each of you very, very much for trying to help. I am just not asking the question correctly. If you've never used GS3 ENSEMBLE, then you might not understand my problem. I don't think they have grouped sounds together for GS3 ORCHESTRA.
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  9. #9

    Re: A very Newbie question about GS3 Ensemble

    OK, I get it now. Whether you're using GS Ensemble or GS Orchestra is irrelevant. What you need is a solo instrument (violin, viola, cello, etc) library. Or an ensemble of one particuler instrument (first violins). I'm still not sure about which you're looking for. The library you're playing is a sampled string ensemble. It's recored that way... like a mix. Once a song is mixed, you can't listen to just the bass any more.

    Again, this has nothing to do with any version of Gigastudio. You need a sample library of the instrument(s) you want to play. Whether that is an ensemble of single instruments, or actual solo instruments. Then you'll have to play & record each instrument's MIDI on a separate track in Sonar.

    - G

  10. #10
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    Re: A very Newbie question about GS3 Ensemble

    Yes! I think you do understand...Ok, you're confirming the conclusion that I have decided I have to live with; that I cannot control individual instruments using this "ensemble instrument" and that I'd need to buy individual libraries instead.

    So until I get enough money to buy more samples, right now I'm just trying to figure out how to program what I have.

    As an ensemble library, to make it sound as close to a real ensemble as I can, should I just send 4 MIDI tracks to it, for example, one high treble clef, one low treble clef, one high bass clef and one low bass clef? Or is there a better way to do this?
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