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Topic: JaBB Shakes Portamento

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  1. #1

    Question JaBB Shakes Portamento

    I have tried all three trumpet shake example .mid files and they do not sound like the .mp3s using Sonar(6).
    • There is no portamento on the BbShake.mid.
    • With HighFShake.mid the pitch goes up and down but not as much.
    • With DblBbSimShake the pitch goes up and down but not as much just like HighFShake.
    My guess is that there are two issues. Pitchbend range and the mysteries of portamento.

    I have mislayed my Jabb manual so I don't know how to set Pitchbend range (though I would have thought that this would be set in an example that uses it if a controller can set it).

    Additionally, Sus pedal up or down (cntl 64) if I just audition an open trumpet voice from the keyboard I do not get a portamento effect.

    I have updated JaBB and I have used it extensively since I got it three months ago. I really need to get control over trumpet shakes for my current project.

    thanks in advance

    ddt

  2. #2

    Re: JaBB Shakes Portamento

    Quote Originally Posted by daudioguy
    I have tried all three trumpet shake example .mid files and they do not sound like the .mp3s using Sonar(6).
    First, I checked the files in Sonar 6 to make sure that nothing had changed since Sonar 5 that might affect the functioning of the shakes data. I found no problem; the files played correctly on my machine. So, having checked that, I would suggest the following:

    1. Make certain that the instrument programming was properly updated in your JABB player. If it was you will see two additional folders when you click on the Load button in the player: 10. Lite and 11. Place Holder. If you don't see these two additional folders then the programming was not successfully updated and the shakes files will not work.
    2. Make sure the player is set in pedal mode #2 in the options menu.
    3. Make sure that the MIDI track data includes the cc#64 data point before the shake begins. I can't think of any reason that it would be missing in your tracks since it is in the MIDI file as posted but it's worth checking. This is the data (a mid value) that accomplishes the switching to the shakes layer which contains special programming. One of the differences in the shakes layer is a wider pitchbend range. If the pitchbend shakes are not as wide as the mp3 examples then I would suspect either the programming update or the switch not being activated.
    I have mislayed my Jabb manual so I don't know how to set Pitchbend range (though I would have thought that this would be set in an example that uses it if a controller can set it).
    Indeed, if this was necessary I would have mentioned it in the tutorial. Pitchbend range is not adjustable in the present player. That will change in the K2 player.

    Additionally, Sus pedal up or down (cntl 64) if I just audition an open trumpet voice from the keyboard I do not get a portamento effect.
    I just checked a couple of the open trumpets and the portamento is working just fine. The shakes layer uses a non-standard mid value of cc64 and the portamento is always active on the shakes layer. On the standard pedal up and pedal down layers portamento is used in conjunction with pitchbend and the pitchbend defeat layer (cc19) to cover all possible situations. See the GPO portamento tutorial for more info on this. Also, keep in mind that, since the shakes layer does use a mid value cc64, the data must be drawn into the track (or already be there, like in the tutorial MIDI files) - an actual hardware sustain pedal won't do it, since it sends only off (value 0) and on (value 127.)

    Tom

  3. #3

    Re: JaBB Shakes Portamento

    click on the Load button in the player: 10. Lite and 11. Place Holder. If you don't see these two additional folders then the programming was not successfully updated and the shakes files will not work
    I checked and I have successfully upgraded; 10 & 11 are there.

    2. Make sure the player is set in pedal mode #2 in the options menu.
    Ah Ha! Now portamento works.... I suspect that my horn sequences will sound more convincing as well. For my curiosity, is #2 the default or did I set it to mode one without understanding the consequences?
    BbSimShake.mid example now sounds like the .mp3. One down.

    I rechecked HighFShake.mid (now that I understand that pitchbend is fixed at +/- two semitones). I don't understand how HighFShake.mid could possibly sound like the HighFShake.mp3. In the MP3 the shake goes from F to G. In the .mid the wheel data never goes more than half excursion up (I checked the picture in the .pdf tutorial and it looks exactly like Sonar on my computer displays it). The tutorial still educates but I need a sanity check on the example file.

    DblBbShake.mid now sounds like the .MP3 file. Changing the pedal mode fixed two out of three.

    Thanks so much for the quick response. It means a lot when one is banging away on a project with a deadline.

    ddt

  4. #4

    Re: JaBB Shakes Portamento

    Quote Originally Posted by daudioguy
    For my curiosity, is #2 the default or did I set it to mode one without understanding the consequences?
    Well, JABB should be delivered with the default set to mode #2 but it matters not. Since the mode must be set specifically for the instrument being used (e.g. piano takes mode 1) the user must be aware of which mode is needed and set things accordingly. Fortunately, this will become a thing of the past when the K2 player gets here since the correct setting can be programmed into the instrument.

    I rechecked HighFShake.mid (now that I understand that pitchbend is fixed at +/- two semitones).
    Pitchbend is set to +/-2 semitones for the sustain and legato layers. The shakes layer, on the other hand, has a range of +/-6 semitones.
    I don't understand how HighFShake.mid could possibly sound like the HighFShake.mp3. In the MP3 the shake goes from F to G. In the .mid the wheel data never goes more than half excursion up (I checked the picture in the .pdf tutorial and it looks exactly like Sonar on my computer displays it).
    Now that you know that your pitchbend range assumption was incorrect (remember the mid value cc64 shakes layer switch is thrown on this example) you can see how the wheel data corresponds to the F to G shake, with one additional detail: The data, at first glance seems to actually go wider than a 2 semitone shake. It's an illusion. The ear tends to average fast moving pitch changes like this. If you slow the data down significantly you will see that the shake is actually about a minor third wide. When played back at the desired tempo it sounds like a major second interval. The trick is to use your ears, not your eyes, to decide how wide the data must be drawn.
    The tutorial still educates but I need a sanity check on the example file.
    I've checked the file - there's no sanity to be found!

    Tom

  5. #5

    Re: JaBB Shakes Portamento

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hopkins
    Pitchbend is set to +/-2 semitones for the sustain and legato layers. The shakes layer, on the other hand, has a range of +/-6 semitones.
    Ah, that explains it. Since the .mid file doesn't have instrument associations I did that and saved it as a .cwp. Unfortunately I initially midread the tutorial and used the lite version of TPT1-KS. This doesn't have the shakes layer so it still didn't work until I figured that out and used TPT 1 OPEN. My bad.

    Again, thanks so much Tom, I am now a fully functioning shaking Trumpet player (not unlike some players I have worked with).

    ddt

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