• Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 7 of 7

Topic: Professors, can you comment this?

Share/Bookmark
  1. #1

    Professors, can you comment this?

    Hello,

    This is the manuscript of Bernard Herrmann’s Vertigo Suite from 1958. Can some of professors comment it?

    http://www.library.ucsb.edu/speccoll/pa/pamss03.html

    First, it seams to me that oboe and cor angles do not sound good with horns, trombones and tuba. “D” tone of oboes and “A” tone of cor angles (third bar) sound dissonant. Also I can not hear them in the Vertigo mp3.

    Second, how about cellos and basses in 6-th bar? Basses are an octave over cellos. What might be the reason for this?

    Any other comment that you think would be of interest is welcome.

    Thank you,

    Aleksandar

  2. #2

    Re: Professors, can you comment this?

    About the second question:

    It doesn't menion anything (if the score is in C or transcribed), but the thing is that in almost all cases the Cbs sound an octave lower.

    So any composer who would want the Contrabassi to sound unison with the Violoncellos would have to write the cellos an octave lower (rather the Contrabass an octave higher that is).

    Don't know what vertigo.mp3 you're talking about (being a newbie and all that), but since the flute and oboe are at a higher register than the horns, trombones and tubas (all rather low range), it makes sense to fill the gap of frequencies. But of course with 4 horns (or more?) 3 trombones and a tuba playing f I wouldn't expect to listen to 4 woodwinds no matter what. But if you can provide a link, I would be most greatful.

    BTW, I'm nothing close to professor or antyhing, I hope I'm not abbusing anything here.

  3. #3

    Re: Professors, can you comment this?

    Quote Originally Posted by nikolas
    BTW, I'm nothing close to professor or antyhing, I hope I'm not abbusing anything here.
    Nikolas,

    You are certainly not abusing anything here . Thank you for such a quick notice.

    Quote Originally Posted by nikolas
    ...but since the flute and oboe are at a higher register than the horns, trombones and tubas (all rather low range), it makes sense to fill the gap of frequencies.
    Yes I can agree on this (it makes sense to fill the gap of frequencies), but the problem is in particular notes. “D” tone of oboes and “A” tone of cor angles sound false and out of harmony. These notes and instruments are not present in the mp3 file I mentioned, I can not hear them, yet they are in the manuscript.

    About mp3 file. I have a complete soundtrack from Vertigo, and that is the example I am talking about. You can find the Vertigo Prelude excerpt here:

    http://www.moviemusic.com/audio/vertigo_1.mp3

    It is very short, but is long enough to hear exactly what I am talking about.

    Check it out!

    Greetings,

    Aleksandar

  4. #4

    Re: Professors, can you comment this?

    Well thanks for the mp3.

    About the English Horn (just figured out what you mean actually).

    The score is transposed after (it must be). Thus Frech Horns (in F) and Englsih Horns (in F as well), sound a fifth lower. That means that the A in the manuscript sounds like a D. So no dissonance there. Everyone is playiong D, and indeed it does not sound really.

    Try it out for your self wit ha sample library. It's only 6 bars.

    The woodwinds are rather weak, especially in a rather low registry. How can you compaire 20 violinists + 4 French horns + 3 trombones + 1 tuba, and expect to have 2 oboe and 1 e.h (with the diffeent imbre) to be heard? Just hell difficult to do.

  5. #5

    Re: Professors, can you comment this?

    To start with the 2nd question:

    The basses are not an octave over the cellos but will sound in UNISON with them. Not really unusual, when you want a very solid, rather heavy bass, or a big unison passage.

    As to the oboe/E.hn.: This is a powerful unison passage. Sometimes this register is used in such doubling to add a bit more bite. It's pretty subtle, given the very loud brass parts; you won't hear them clearly independantly.

    Hope that helps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar
    Hello,

    This is the manuscript of Bernard Herrmann’s Vertigo Suite from 1958. Can some of professors comment it?

    http://www.library.ucsb.edu/speccoll/pa/pamss03.html

    First, it seams to me that oboe and cor angles do not sound good with horns, trombones and tuba. “D” tone of oboes and “A” tone of cor angles (third bar) sound dissonant. Also I can not hear them in the Vertigo mp3.

    Second, how about cellos and basses in 6-th bar? Basses are an octave over cellos. What might be the reason for this?

    Any other comment that you think would be of interest is welcome.

    Thank you,

    Aleksandar
    Alan Belkin, composer
    Professor of Composition
    University of Montreal

    http://www.musique.umontreal.ca/pers...n/e.index.html (links to examples of my music, as well as my online textbooks)

  6. #6

    Re: Professors, can you comment this?

    Thank you for listening vertigo.mp3 and for the additional comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by nikolas
    Try it out for your self wit ha sample library. It's only 6 bars.
    Yes, I have already done that, hence my question. With the explanation you gave, it will sound OK.

    Aleksandar

  7. #7

    Re: Professors, can you comment this?

    Professor Belkin,

    Thank you for your time and explanation. It did help.


    Aleksandar

Go Back to forum

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •