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Topic: Orchestration Challenges Rules Discussion!

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  1. #1

    Orchestration Challenges Rules Discussion!

    Order, order in the court...

    We've successfully gone eight rounds, well over a year, with the orchestration challenges. Recently in Challenge 8, Mitch won his own challenge, a truly historic event for the challenges as such a possibility had never before been considered. Although Mitch has graciously been willing to pass the reigns to the second place tie winners, the issue still remains for us to decide upon: can a challenge setter enter and/or win his or her own challenge?

    I believe that allowing a challenge setter to enter his or her own challenge may be unfair to the other contestants as the creator of the melody may be more familiar with it, and will not be starting from scratch like everyone else. This of course may not be the case, there'd be no way to tell... but it still creates the opportunity for an unfair advantage... in my opinion.

    So... should a challenge setter be able to enter and/or win his or her own challenge? Please add your comments and/or increment the counter for your vote:

    Yea (a challenge setter can enter his or her own challenge) : 0
    Nay (a challenge setter cannot enter his or her own challenge) : 1

    Share your thoughts! The challenges are voter-driven.
    Sean Patrick Hannifin
    My MP3s | My Melody Generator | my album
    "serious music" ... as if the rest of us are just kidding

  2. #2

    Re: Orchestration Challenges Rules Discussion!

    Yea (a challenge setter can enter his or her own challenge) : 0
    Nay (a challenge setter cannot enter his or her own challenge) : 2

    I must admit that I never considered that anyone would submit an entry for their own challenge. I don't think that there is anything fundamentally wrong with competing in your own challenge, however I feel that it does potentially make the the playing field a little uneven.

    I say we add a rule saying that you cannot submit an entry for your own challenge.

    I would say that we need to tighten up the time that the challenge and the voting is open for - i.e. set specific dates and times that the entries have to be submitted by, and that the vote count is taken.
    Richard N.

    Finale 2003 to 2007 ~ Garritan GPO, JABB & Strad ~ Sonar 6PE ~ Kontakt 2 ~ WinXP Home SP2

    Athlon XP 2200 ~ 1.5 Gb RAM ~ M-Audio Sound Card ~ M-Audio 88ES MIDI keyboard ~ Evolution MK-461C

    Bach Strad LT16MG, LT36G, 42B + B&H Sovereign Studio Tenor Trombones ~ Holton 181 Bass Trombone ~ Getzen Bass Trumpet ~ Yamaha TR4335G Trumpet ~ B&H Euphonium

  3. #3

    Re: Orchestration Challenges Rules Discussion!

    RichardN said:
    I would say that we need to tighten up the time that the challenge and the voting is open for - i.e. set specific dates and times that the entries have to be submitted by, and that the vote count is taken.
    I agree with this. At the outset esablish a specific date and stick to it.

    I would also like to add a point that someone expressed early on in this ballading. We were allowed to vote for 3 pieces this time. Why not weight the votes. If you have three votes to cast, have 3 pts. for your best liked piece, 2 for the next and 1 pt. for your third choice. This would go a long way in eliminating so many ties as there was in this vote on the "specified" ending date of Challenge 8.
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

  4. #4

    Re: Orchestration Challenges Rules Discussion!

    Yea (a challenge setter can enter his or her own challenge) : 0
    Nay (a challenge setter cannot enter his or her own challenge) : 3

    Rules, rules, rules - Maybe we need a judge and jury. I will host at my house for a rules committee - bring donuts

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    Re: Orchestration Challenges Rules Discussion!

    Yea (a challenge setter can enter his or her own challenge) : 1
    Nay (a challenge setter cannot enter his or her own challenge) : 3


    Whether or not the originator has an advantage of knowing the melody, the challenge is still based on what the voters like. Setting the challenge should not be used as a criteria for participating. As I said, I especially liked entry 9 in the last challenge, and voted so. Yes, I actually voted against myself. In fact, I was rather jealous of entry 9. I wish I could write that style of music.
    Writing music for the joy of it. (with Windows 7 64bit, Intel i7 processor, 12GB memory, LOTS of disk space, Finale 2014, Garritan GPO, JABB3, COMB, Steinway, World Instruments, & Soundiron Olympus Micro Choir. And if I ever figure out how to use Sonar X2...the sky's the limit)

  6. #6

    Re: Orchestration Challenges Rules Discussion!

    Yea (a challenge setter can enter his or her own challenge) : 1
    Nay (a challenge setter cannot enter his or her own challenge) : 4

    The challenge setter has proved their worth among their peers by winning the prior challenge. Time for them to set a challenge and pass the baton on.

    Challenge entries should be limited to one per member.

    Dates should be fixed in advance, and vote-count date/time/timezone stipulated at challenge start.

    The entries should be all GPO, or all Garritan Libraries, or may feature one guest instrument (soft or hard) - the decision as to which to be made by the challenge setter. Remove the word 'substantially' from the rules. I was going to say keep it all GPO/Garritan but then I remember a great recent entry which featured some acoustic guitar. Hmmmmm niiiiice.

    Final rule: Sean must carry on maintaining his EXCELLENT OC challenge website:
    http://wizardwalk.com/OrchestrationChallenges/

  7. #7

    Re: Orchestration Challenges Rules Discussion!

    =L0W I was going to say keep it all GPO/Garritan but then I remember a great recent entry which featured some acoustic guitar. Hmmmmm niiiiice.
    If your thinking of the entry that I did a while back with acoustic guitar, it was out of JABB - If I'm correct, I'm rather pleased that you liked enough to remember it
    Richard N.

    Finale 2003 to 2007 ~ Garritan GPO, JABB & Strad ~ Sonar 6PE ~ Kontakt 2 ~ WinXP Home SP2

    Athlon XP 2200 ~ 1.5 Gb RAM ~ M-Audio Sound Card ~ M-Audio 88ES MIDI keyboard ~ Evolution MK-461C

    Bach Strad LT16MG, LT36G, 42B + B&H Sovereign Studio Tenor Trombones ~ Holton 181 Bass Trombone ~ Getzen Bass Trumpet ~ Yamaha TR4335G Trumpet ~ B&H Euphonium

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SAN ANTONIO, TX
    Posts
    1,386

    Re: Orchestration Challenges Rules Discussion!

    The designation of 1, 2 3 for each vote is a very good way to
    vote. But more has to be specified.
    for instance; add numbers-lowest number wins: determine by how many 1st place votes one receives; and probably a few I haven't thought about.
    Accceptance is easier when everything is clear at the beginning.
    Gary Mosse

  9. #9

    Re: Orchestration Challenges Rules Discussion!

    Yea (a challenge setter can enter his or her own challenge) : 3
    Nay (a challenge setter cannot enter his or her own challenge) : 0

    I haven't entered one of these competitions yet (I keep missing the deadlines), so my opinion may not be relevant.

    I think the challenge setter should be allowed to write his/her own. Your ability to orchestrate should have little/nothing to do with the quality or familiarity of the melody. A good orchestrator can orchestrate even a bad melody well, and a bad orchestrator can ruin a good melody.

    Being more familiar with a melody really shouldn't make any difference. I mean, we're working with a language of 12 notes here, I don't think anyone is going to run into unfamiliar territory ("sorry, I can't orchestrate this, it has an F# in it"). If I compose a melody and give it to Stravinsky, I can bet you that Igor's orchestration will be better than mine no matter how long the melody has been stewing in my brain.

    If the challenge setter writes his/her own orchestration, then it gives a basis for comparison, and we can hear what the original intention was behind the melody. Besides, we're not talking about the Pulitzer here, we're talking about an informal contest that is mainly used for practice, education, ear-training, inspiration, etc. The more ideas that we get to hear, the better.

    chris.

  10. #10

    Re: Orchestration Challenges Rules Discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by CallMeZoot
    Yea (a challenge setter can enter his or her own challenge) : 3
    Nay (a challenge setter cannot enter his or her own challenge) : 0
    Let's not negate votes.

    Yea (a challenge setter can enter his or her own challenge) : 2
    Nay (a challenge setter cannot enter his or her own challenge) : 4
    Sean Patrick Hannifin
    My MP3s | My Melody Generator | my album
    "serious music" ... as if the rest of us are just kidding

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