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Topic: Sampled Guitar Survey

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  1. #1

    Sampled Guitar Survey

    I am considering the possibility of producing a large collection of high quality sampled electric and acoustic guitars, electric basses, banjos, and mandolin, and I would like to know how interested everyone would be in such a collection of quality sampled instruments.

    As always with Bardstown Audio, the highest quality professional recording equipment and techniques would be used in the sample recording processes of these instruments. All instruments would be chromatically sampled recorded with multiple velocity layers and release note off samples, which capture the sound of the finger coming off of the finger board, which provides a great deal of character and realism.

    Rather than packaging all of these instruments into one large and expensive package, I would sell each of these instruments individually and provide graduating discounts for each additional instrument that is purchased at the same time or perhaps within 30 days of the initial purchase.

    These instruments would be too large to have as downloadable instruments. Each individual instrument would be sold on individual CD's at a very reasonable price and would contain all of the sampler formats of that instrument, including Giga 3, HALion, Kontakt/Kompakt, and EXS24.

    Here is the complete list of instruments that I am considering producing...

    Gibson B.B. King "Lucille"
    Gibson Les Paul Standard with single coil P90 pickups
    Gibson L5 acoustic archtop jazz guitar
    Gibson L5 electric archtop jazz guitar with a floating Armstrong Humbucker
    Gibson ES335
    D'Jango Reinhardt Gypsy Jazz Guitar
    Hofner Classical Guitar, which is a top of the line professional model
    Gibson Advanced Jumbo acoustic flat top guitar
    Gretsch 6120 equipped with TV Jones pickups, Brian Setzer/Chet Atkins guitar
    57 Fender Stratocaster Reissue
    52 Fender Telecaster Reissue
    Fender Precession Bass
    Fender Jazz Bass
    Gibson Mandolin
    Gibson Mastertone Five String Bluegrass Banjo
    Modified Gibson Mastertone Four String Plectrum Banjo

    I also have a Fender 65 Twin Custom 15 and a Fender 59 Bassman LTD Reissue that I would use to sample record the electric guitars with clean settings. There are many quality amp simulator plugins available in order to produce over-driven sounds from clean sounding sampled guitars, such as the ones mentioned above.

    Once I have completed four or five of these instruments, I would have those available for sale and add new instruments every week or so as I complete them.

    Before I make the decision to undertake a large and time consuming project such as this, I need to know how interested everyone would be in having high quality sampled instruments such as these.

    I appreciate any and all comments regarding interest in these sampled instruments.

    Thank you,

    Kip McGinnis
    Bardstown Audio
    www.BardstownAudio.com

  2. #2

    Re: Sampled Guitar Survey

    Hi Kip,

    your collection of proposed sampled guitars (accoustic and electric) is quite diversified along with the other strummed samples. I know that you will produce an "A Class" set of sampled instruments as you have in the past and I certainly look forward in hearing this huge arsenal of samples. A library coverfng so many great names is very attractive. You have my vote of "YES!

    Alan Russell




    Quote Originally Posted by Bardstown Audio
    I am considering the possibility of producing a large collection of high quality sampled electric and acoustic guitars, electric basses, banjos, and mandolin, and I would like to know how interested everyone would be in such a collection of quality sampled instruments.

    As always with Bardstown Audio, the highest quality professional recording equipment and techniques would be used in the sample recording processes of these instruments. All instruments would be chromatically sampled recorded with multiple velocity layers and release note off samples, which capture the sound of the finger coming off of the finger board, which provides a great deal of character and realism.

    Rather than packaging all of these instruments into one large and expensive package, I would sell each of these instruments individually and provide graduating discounts for each additional instrument that is purchased at the same time or perhaps within 30 days of the initial purchase.

    These instruments would be too large to have as downloadable instruments. Each individual instrument would be sold on individual CD's at a very reasonable price and would contain all of the sampler formats of that instrument, including Giga 3, HALion, Kontakt/Kompakt, and EXS24.

    Here is the complete list of instruments that I am considering producing...

    Gibson B.B. King "Lucille"
    Gibson Les Paul Standard with single coil P90 pickups
    Gibson L5 acoustic archtop jazz guitar
    Gibson L5 electric archtop jazz guitar with a floating Armstrong Humbucker
    Gibson ES335
    D'Jango Reinhardt Gypsy Jazz Guitar
    Hofner Classical Guitar, which is a top of the line professional model
    Gibson Advanced Jumbo acoustic flat top guitar
    Gretsch 6120 equipped with TV Jones pickups, Brian Setzer/Chet Atkins guitar
    57 Fender Stratocaster Reissue
    52 Fender Telecaster Reissue
    Fender Precession Bass
    Fender Jazz Bass
    Gibson Mandolin
    Gibson Mastertone Five String Bluegrass Banjo
    Modified Gibson Mastertone Four String Plectrum Banjo

    I also have a Fender 65 Twin Custom 15 and a Fender 59 Bassman LTD Reissue that I would use to sample record the electric guitars with clean settings. There are many quality amp simulator plugins available in order to produce over-driven sounds from clean sounding sampled guitars, such as the ones mentioned above.

    Once I have completed four or five of these instruments, I would have those available for sale and add new instruments every week or so as I complete them.

    Before I make the decision to undertake a large and time consuming project such as this, I need to know how interested everyone would be in having high quality sampled instruments such as these.

    I appreciate any and all comments regarding interest in these sampled instruments.

    Thank you,

    Kip McGinnis
    Bardstown Audio
    www.BardstownAudio.com
    Please Visit My New & Revised Official Website Below

    http://AlanRussell-Music.com

  3. #3

    Re: Sampled Guitar Survey

    I agree with Lee. Playability is key, even over realism to some degree. For example, I love using Real Guitar 2. Are there more realistic guitar samples out there, sure. But RG2 is EXTREMELY user friendly and produces a good enough sound to be my go to guitar lib. If you could capture ease of use in a great interface AND have a killer sound, you may have something! But to just focus on capturing the sound and expect us composers (especially us non-guitar players) to then figure out how to use them is a mistake IMO. Of course there are those who value realism and tweakability over playability, but I really think they are a minority.

    I would also love to have samples of a pedal steel guitar, but I dont know if that is feasible or not

    Best of luck in your new ventures!

  4. #4

    Re: Sampled Guitar Survey

    I will give my two cents (with my bad english:)...

    - the playability is the key. when I use a sample library I want to play with it - not spend 90% of the time on tweaking, drawing controllers and stuff. and when it comes to "100 and more" articulations it's almost imposible to make music with it. and to be honest all these small details will be lost more or less in the final mix. I not say that it's a bad thing, but maybe you could think about "lite" versions, with easier playability.

    - it's a good idea to sell instruments seperatly. I live in a country where besides I'm earning more than national average I have to save for a long time to buy any of these big 200-300 euros libraries. it's much better for me to decide which sounds I like and buy this particular library.

    - more "private" thing:) - I'm looking for a good rock/metal picked bass. listened to many demos, tried some libraries - nothing sounds like it. it's like all these libraries were made for a solo 5-6 string bass virtuoso, but none for a deep, hard picking:). the only library that is near what I need is Hard Pick Rock Bass (Amps & Pickups 1) from Sonic Implants. so I think maybe there is a small niche here...

  5. #5

    Re: Sampled Guitar Survey

    Lee, I appreciate your thoughts and comments.

    Obviously, since you are a guitar musician, you would not be as interested in purchasing quality sampled guitars as non-guitar musicians would be, unless you were wanting to get a particular sound that you don't have in your personal guitar collection.

    Many sampled guitar libraries that have been available over the years do lack realism, and sound rather sterile. Many sampled acoustic guitars sound more like a harpsichord than a guitar.

    At Bardstown Audio I have developed methods for sampling guitars that do make them sound much more convincing and realistic than most of the other sampled guitars that are available. Many people have made these observations and comments regarding the Bardstown "Vintage Jazz Guitars and Tenor Banjos" collection. I incorporate release note off samples on all guitar, bass, and banjo samples that I produce, which provides the sound of the finger coming off of the finger board, which is an extremely essential part of the sound and character of all plucked stringed instruments. I don't believe any other guitar samples provide this feature.

    You also made mention of huge sampled instrument libraries getting up to 60 gigabytes in size. None of my sampled guitars would be in excess of a few hundred megabytes in size. You don't need mega gigabytes in order to properly and accurately capture the sound of most instruments.

    I am a very firm believer in producing sampled instruments that are easily playable straight from the keyboard and sound most convincing without having to mess around with clunky key switching, controllers, etc. In my opinion this is the way sampled instruments should respond, and sound convincing with straight forward and easy playing from the keyboard. If you have to mess around with clunky and complex programming and controllers, this removes the joy of being able to play like a musician and thus having a great sounding instrument straight from the keyboard. When I produce sampled guitars, I don't provide hammer-ons, pull-offs, or slides, because these kind of articulations never work or sound right when they have been incorporated into a sampled guitar. Tempo settings and the feel of a song are never the same, and as a result hammer-ons, pull-offs, and slides, will always sound cheesy in a sampled plucked stringed instrument, whether it be guitar, bass, banjo, etc. If a person wants to hear hammer-ons, pull-offs, and slides, then they need to have a real guitar musician come into the studio and lay down the tracks playing a real guitar. For many guitar playing and song applications, these articulations are not necessary or important in order to achieve great sounding rhythm and lead guitar tracks. I realize that some guitar musicians will disagree with me on this, but I am also a guitar musician and I do feel as though these articulations, such as hammer-ons, pull-offs, and slides, are not that important in many music playing styles. Release note off samples that I provide on all sampled guitars, which capture the sound of the finger coming off of the finger board, are very important in order to achieve a convincing sound on sampled guitars, and the musician does not have to mess around with any clunky key-switching or controllers in order to have the release note off samples work. All you have to do is to sit down at you keyboard and play, and everything works, plays, and sounds as it should, period! I do provide volume control of the release note off samples with the mod wheel, which is very easy to use. If you want to hear a great deal of the sound of the finger coming off of the fingerboard, then turn up the volume with the mod wheel, and if you want to hear less of this effect, then you turn down the volume of the release note off samples with the mod wheel. Once you have the desired volume set, you don't have to think about it any further.. just play and have fun making great music with Bardstown sampled guitars.

    Regarding your comments about Gibson archtops versus Eastman, a quality sampled Gibson archtop sounds like a Gibson archtop, an Eastman sounds like an Eastman, a Stromberg archtop sounds like a Stromberg, and an Epiphone Emperor sounds like an Epiphone. Personally, I much prefer the sound of Gibson electric and acoustic archtop jazz guitars over any other archtop jazz guitars, and the sound of a quality sampled Gibson archtop guitar comes very close to sounding like the real thing when it is produced by me personally.

    Regarding your thoughts on sample recording clean sounding electric guitars through amps as opposed to going direct line in, you do have a valid point. I have been contemplating this very issue myself. It is quite possible that I may decide to sample record these electric guitars by going line in through Avalon M5 DI's, which is the very best and cleanest sounding DI for guitars and basses. I am definitely using the Avalon M5 DI's for the Fender Jazz and Precision basses, and there is good probability that I will perhaps do the same with the electric guitars, considering most people will be using their favorite amp simulator plugins in order to get the precise sound they like.

    Kip McGinnis
    Bardstown Audio
    www.BardstownAudio.com

  6. #6

    Re: Sampled Guitar Survey

    Real Guitar to me is THE standard for playability. Having said that- I would advise you to wait until RG electric version comes out. I know it's in the works(or at least was told so in an email from them last year). Also, Bela-D has their Studio B pt II Jazz guitar coming out soon. Tough crowd.

    But I like all the libraries pretty much and would be surprised in yours didn't have something unique to offer. P.S. Bela-d indeed has release samples-the sound of a finger coming off the string. crucial

  7. #7

    Re: Sampled Guitar Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by artsoundz
    Real Guitar to me is THE standard for playability. Having said that- I would advise you to wait until RG electric version comes out. I know it's in the works(or at least was told so in an email from them last year). Also, Bela-D has their Studio B pt II Jazz guitar coming out soon. Tough crowd.
    '
    But I like all the libraries pretty much and would be surprised in yours didn't have something unique to offer. P.S. Bela-d indeed has release samples-the sound of a finger coming off the string. crucial
    All of the necessary programming features that I need in order to produce great sounding and convincing sampled guitars are incorporated in Giga, HALion, Kontakt/Kompakt, and EXS24. Any other new programming features in new samplers or virtual instruments would be of no benefit for me.

    Kip McGinnis
    Bardstown Audio
    www.bardtownaudio.com

  8. #8

    Re: Sampled Guitar Survey

    After listening to your website mp-3s -I am not convinced. Dont mean to sound rude but your samples are no more convincing than other top level samples.I listened to the Jazz guitar samples and could easily tell they were samples. Sounded good-dont get me wrong- but samples nonetheless.Maybe you have something else in mind? EDIT_ since I posted this, your website seems to be down.EDIT AGAIN_ I clicked on your link above- its misspelled BARDtown -FYI.

  9. #9

    Re: Sampled Guitar Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by artsoundz
    After listening to your website mp-3s -I am not convinced. Dont mean to sound rude but your samples are no more convincing than other top level samples.I listened to the Jazz guitar samples and could easily tell they were samples. Sounded good-dont get me wrong- but samples nonetheless.Maybe you have something else in mind? EDIT_ since I posted this, your website seems to be down.

    Most people don't agree with your opinion on this at all. Those samples do a very respectable job of capturing the sounds of archtop jazz guitars and tenor banjos. Archtop guitars don't sound like the usual flat top guitars that you typically hear all the time. Tenor banjos don't sound like the typical five string bluegrass banjos that you typically hear. They sound very different from each other. These samples were produced six years ago and still sound amazingly great based on today's standards.

    The sampled guitars I am talking about in this discussion have not yet been produced. This is an entirely new collection of guitars that are completely different than the guitars in the "Vintage Jazz Guitars and Tenor Banjos" collection.

    Kip McGinnis
    Bardstown Audio
    www.bardstownaudio.com

  10. #10

    Re: Sampled Guitar Survey

    The electric Jazz guiatrs just dont sound real to me, However- I just heard the mp3 of the Parisian/accordian and that was fabuluous. very convincing. So- Ill take back part of my statement. But, respectfully, some of the mp3;s dont sound real. But love the bass.

    I'd say go for it. I'm in. Just giving you my honest opinion.
    EDIT- just listened again 'cuz I feel bad if I sounded discouraging. I'm sticking to my opinion BUT- Some of those samples(guitar) in fact most are really nice. So Id say if anyone can do it maybe you can. I think its a tough sell,though, with Real Guitar and Bela-D out there. Even Chris Hein's upcoming guitar library is interesting despite the mp3's. So- you sincerely have my vote. Good luck-Im looking forward to finding the quintessential"Jim Hall" guitar sound. Dark -moody, Ya know?

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