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Topic: Holst 2nd Suite, Movement 2--NO WAITING!

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  1. #1

    Holst 2nd Suite, Movement 2--NO WAITING!

    Friends...

    As threatened, err, promised, you can find the second movement of Gustav Holst's Second Suite by clicking HERE. It's called Holst2 for some strange reason.

    We tend to get more orchestra & chamber music here, so I thought I'd do a few wind ensemble things.

    You can have it in 2 flavors: MP3 at 128 and MP3 at 192.

    I moved to eSnips for storage, so there is NO MORE TEN-SECOND WAIT!!

    This movement is quiet and introspective, as opposed to the rather boisterous pub-like mood of the first mvmt.

    For that matter, the first movement is there as well as Holst1.

    Everything was done in Overture 4 with Garritan libraries: Mostly GPO, plus some extra clarinets from Finale GPO and saxes from JABB.

    Overture 4 MIDI control is just superb & very easy to use with Garritan libraries!

    Any suggestions for improvement welcome!
    Please enjoy

    Jim
    Jim Williams
    Professor of Capitalism
    N9EJR
    Indianapolis Brass Choir
    All Your Bass Sus&Short Are Belong to Us.

  2. #2
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    Re: Holst 2nd Suite, Movement 2--NO WAITING!

    Jim,

    Nice rendering of the second movement. What amazes me about this piece is that the scoring for the military band is for a very small group as were the custom for bands that of that time.

    I expect the rest of the Suite to be available for our listening pleasure soon!!

    Gary

    www.garybricault.com

  3. #3

    Re: Holst 2nd Suite, Movement 2--NO WAITING!

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryBric
    Jim,

    Nice rendering of the second movement. What amazes me about this piece is that the scoring for the military band is for a very small group as were the custom for bands that of that time.

    I expect the rest of the Suite to be available for our listening pleasure soon!!

    Gary

    www.garybricault.com
    Thanx, Gary...4th mvmt next. I gotta devise a way to create an anvil before I can do mvmt 3 (Song of the Blacksmith)
    Jim
    Jim Williams
    Professor of Capitalism
    N9EJR
    Indianapolis Brass Choir
    All Your Bass Sus&Short Are Belong to Us.

  4. #4

    Re: Holst 2nd Suite, Movement 2--NO WAITING!

    Hey. Jim, you said "no waiting". But there were sixty
    people milling around out front of the place!

    I don't think I 've heard this movement in years; which
    is a shame. Beautifully done, Jim, thank you for it.

    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .

  5. #5

    Re: Holst 2nd Suite, Movement 2--NO WAITING!

    Quote Originally Posted by etLux
    Hey. Jim, you said "no waiting". But there were sixty
    people milling around out front of the place!

    I don't think I 've heard this movement in years; which
    is a shame. Beautifully done, Jim, thank you for it.

    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .
    Thanx for the kind words, sir. Given your ears & talent, I am encouraged by your comments...I wish I had more time to REALLY fine-tune things, but I'm encouraged by what I can get out of a notation program.

    Overture's MIDI implementation is 500x better than Finale's MIDI tool, I'd say.

    Again, thanx. Maybe I can muster up the courage to turn in an original

    Jim
    Jim Williams
    Professor of Capitalism
    N9EJR
    Indianapolis Brass Choir
    All Your Bass Sus&Short Are Belong to Us.

  6. #6

    Re: Holst 2nd Suite, Movement 2--NO WAITING!

    Quote Originally Posted by snorlax
    Thanx for the kind words, sir. Given your ears & talent, I am encouraged by your comments...I wish I had more time to REALLY fine-tune things, but I'm encouraged by what I can get out of a notation program.

    Overture's MIDI implementation is 500x better than Finale's MIDI tool, I'd say.

    Again, thanx. Maybe I can muster up the courage to turn in an original

    Jim
    I love Finale -- and the new 2007 is a gem. But Finale does not
    really have a midi tool... it's more like a puzzle left in the software for
    sake of our curious minds. A form of art, if you wish -- that which
    intriques but cannot be usefully employed... lol. (Sorry, Finale, much
    as I abundantly admire your work, that "midi tool" is from 1970.)

    Regardless, Jim, with practice, you can get incredibly good renditions
    out of straight notation, these days.

    Bring on The Planets!

    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .

  7. #7

    Re: Holst 2nd Suite, Movement 2--NO WAITING!

    Quote Originally Posted by etLux
    I love Finale -- and the new 2007 is a gem. But Finale does not
    really have a midi tool... it's more like a puzzle left in the software for
    sake of our curious minds. A form of art, if you wish -- that which
    intriques but cannot be usefully employed... lol. (Sorry, Finale, much
    as I abundantly admire your work, that "midi tool" is from 1970.)

    Regardless, Jim, with practice, you can get incredibly good renditions
    out of straight notation, these days.

    Bring on The Planets!

    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .
    David...
    Well, I am learning that your last point was even more true than I had previously thought. Of course, having GPO helps as well!!

    I got my 2007 on Monday but have not yet put it through the paces.
    To what extent do you use HP, David? Have you had time to evaluate the 2007 HP improvements? Enquiring minds wanna know!

    Two, errrr, three things in Finale (I've been in since Finale 2.0 on Win 3.1) have always stood out in their ability to emulate a vacuum cleaner:
    1. The Mirror Tool--it used to turn my PC into an Atari ST, it crashed so often
    2. The MIDI Tool--You're too kind above.
    3. Executable shapes--egad, what an ugly contrivance!!

    (Finale's chief weapon is the...Finale's two chief weapons are the...Finale's three chief weapons are the Mirror Tool, the MIDI Tool, and the Executable Shape. NOBODY EXPECTS THE FINALE INQUISITION...)

    Remember that the original lead programmer for Finale was a chap named Phil Farrand, who eventually became the world's nitpicking expert about Star Trek and other such. Would it not then stand to reason that he would create a contraption on the order of the MIDI TOOL?

    As for me, I lament the loss of the user-selectable TCD Watershed Bit.

    Please do comment on 2007's HP if you have had the chance to work with it.

    Jim
    Jim Williams
    Professor of Capitalism
    N9EJR
    Indianapolis Brass Choir
    All Your Bass Sus&Short Are Belong to Us.

  8. #8

    Re: Holst 2nd Suite, Movement 2--NO WAITING!

    Jim,

    I use HP to interpret score markings; but I keep the more "human"
    factors of it very conservative, so the score is read more on the
    literal side. Jim, when you look at a score like, say, The Realization
    Of Light
    -- and listen as you read -- you'll see that it is the
    notation doing the work, and primarily responsible for the conducted
    feel of the rendering.

    I've said this many times, in many ways, and now again: Software
    is slightly less intelligent than a bag of dead flies. Do not depend
    on it to know (or simulate) basic musicianship. If you want it to
    do something... notate it! That means far more detail in scoring
    practice than what you see in traditional scoring -- and that, in a
    nutshell, is the key to getting the best out of Finale.

    As for Finale 2007 -- I have nothing but applause. And I don't mean
    the new goo-gaws, alone. I believe you'll find it very significantly
    improved in rendering, responsiveness, and audio detail as well.

    Hope my comments are of some aid, Jim!

    My best,

    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .

  9. #9

    Re: Holst 2nd Suite, Movement 2--NO WAITING!

    Quote Originally Posted by etLux
    Jim,

    I use HP to interpret score markings; but I keep the more "human"
    factors of it very conservative, so the score is read more on the
    literal side. Jim, when you look at a score like, say, The Realization
    Of Light
    -- and listen as you read -- you'll see that it is the
    notation doing the work, and primarily responsible for the conducted
    feel of the rendering.

    I've said this many times, in many ways, and now again: Software
    is slightly less intelligent than a bag of dead flies. Do not depend
    on it to know (or simulate) basic musicianship. If you want it to
    do something... notate it! That means far more detail in scoring
    practice than what you see in traditional scoring -- and that, in a
    nutshell, is the key to getting the best out of Finale.

    As for Finale 2007 -- I have nothing but applause. And I don't mean
    the new goo-gaws, alone. I believe you'll find it very significantly
    improved in rendering, responsiveness, and audio detail as well.

    Hope my comments are of some aid, Jim!

    My best,

    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .
    Funny you should mention Realization--I was listening the other day with the score ...and see what you mean.

    In fact, when doing this Holst, I set myself a challenge that I would produce a score that:
    1. Gave as convincing performance as possible given my time constraints, and...
    2. looked, in its final form, EXACTLY like the original.

    In Overture, this is easy because:
    1. The MIDI implementation is incredibly simple and CAN be done without touching the printed score and...
    2. It's very easy to hide notation elements if I do decide to mark the score.
    Actually, that's the route I took with the Holst...I hid about a million hairpins and other instructions, a few staves, etc.
    Next time I will try to go the "drawing" route.

    Actually, I'll be interested to see if there is an audible difference between a "rough" <> that I draw in by hand and a "smooth" <> created via a symbol.
    Actually, Overture has SEVEN(!!) control points for <, for >, and for <>, so I can make them as smooth or rough as I see fit. I wonder what the "just noticeable difference" is for Mod Wheel movement

    Of course, we have to give Gary and Tom some credit for prescience in making GPO so notation-friendly!

    Have you looked at Overture, David? It's not yet a fully realized product, but it's well on the way. I'd be curious to get your opinion.

    ALSO--In doing these scores, I found myself setting basic volumes quite low--in the 40s, 50s and 60s for the most part--and resorting to mod wheel values in single digits for pp sections--is that consistent with your experience for your works? Perhaps in my cases it's different due to having two on a part in the wind ensemble. Comment?
    OK-I'll leave you alone now!
    Jim

    PS--I am DEVASTATED to learn that the rhyming dictionary was excised from 2007.
    Jim Williams
    Professor of Capitalism
    N9EJR
    Indianapolis Brass Choir
    All Your Bass Sus&Short Are Belong to Us.

  10. #10

    Re: Holst 2nd Suite, Movement 2--NO WAITING!

    What! No rhyming? I'm going to the UN about this!

    Jim, yes, I looked at Overture some time ago. I think it's a fine
    product in many regards; but don't know it well enough to
    comment in depth or make comparisons to Finale.

    I do know Finale fairly well, have been using it for many, many
    years -- and for me... it does damned near everything I could
    ask of it. You know, though, you kind of have to look at these
    notation programs much like you look at a traditional musical
    instrument -- it takes time, practice, thought, nuancing,
    massaging to perform well with it, little differently from what it
    takes, say, to become a fine pianist.

    On dynamics in Finale, one trick is to make different forte,
    piano, etc., markings for different uses. A forte for a flute,
    for instance, would -- just as in reality -- be somewhat
    different from a forte for a trumpet.

    Best,

    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .

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