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Topic: GPO full and Kontact 2 player

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  1. #1

    GPO full and Kontact 2 player

    so I guess that GPO full doesn't yet work with the new Kontact 2 player that comes with Finale 2007?

    any news on when there will be an update?

  2. #2

    Re: GPO full and Kontact 2 player

    Two parts to this: First, Haydn on another thread has just posted that the present full GPO seems to work just fine with Finale 7. Second, as I've stated before, updates (all updates) will coincide with the move of the GPO and JABB libraries to the K2 player. I can't give you a date on when that will take place.

    Tom

  3. #3

    Re: GPO full and Kontact 2 player

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hopkins
    Two parts to this: First, Haydn on another thread has just posted that the present full GPO seems to work just fine with Finale 7. Second, as I've stated before, updates (all updates) will coincide with the move of the GPO and JABB libraries to the K2 player. I can't give you a date on when that will take place.
    Tom, the problem is that for MacIntel users, none of the GPO libraries work "just fine," since Native Instruments have yet to release a Universal version of the Kontakt 2 Player. Not your fault, of course. But even when they do release the Universal K2 Player, only FinGPO -- which has been updated for K2 Player -- will work at native speed. Kontakt 1 libraries like GPO full and JABB will still run in emulation mode (Rosetta), and my understanding is that Kontakt performance under Rosetta is unusably bad.

    I'd like to encourage you and Gary to make migrating GPO and JABB to the K2 Player a big priority. Ideally, the K2 versions would be ready to go by the time the Universal version of K2 is released -- otherwise, MacIntel users will feel distinctly unloved.

  4. #4

    Re: GPO full and Kontact 2 player

    I have a number of questions related to this thread that perhaps Tom could best answer, but I welcome any answers.

    (1) Is there any advantage to loading GPO programs into full Kontakt 1.5 in terms of saving overhead associated with multiple instances of Kontakt Player? I have been using four instances of GPO Kontakt Player to get my "full orchestra," but my dual G4 can't handle all instruments playing at once.

    (2) Even though DFD is discouraged becasue GPO is a small footprint library, would htere be an advantage to DFD when I try to sound 32 simultaneous GPO instruments?

    (3) I've concluded that my best option for running my "full" orchestra with DP may be to start adding Mac Minis that function only as sample farms (since my dual G4 1.25GHz can't seem to handle this size orchestra). However, the Mini only comes as an Intel Mac now, and I see reported here that GPO works like piss under Rosetta.
    (a) I have been searching the NI web site for some clue as to whether there will be a Kontakt Player for Intel Macs, and can find nothing. Does anyone on this forum have any indications?
    (b) Does or will GPO with DP utilize dual processor capabilities, such as I currently have with a G4 or may have in each Intel Mac Mini if I shell out the extra $200.

    Even rumors are greatly appreciated.

  5. #5

    Re: GPO full and Kontact 2 player

    Quote Originally Posted by SPF
    (1) Is there any advantage to loading GPO programs into full Kontakt 1.5 in terms of saving overhead associated with multiple instances of Kontakt Player? I have been using four instances of GPO Kontakt Player to get my "full orchestra," but my dual G4 can't handle all instruments playing at once.
    Probably not much. However, Kontakt 2.0 and Kontakt Player 2.0 are supposed to be better optimized for G4/G5 than Kontakt 1.x.

    Quote Originally Posted by SPF
    (2) Even though DFD is discouraged becasue GPO is a small footprint library, would htere be an advantage to DFD when I try to sound 32 simultaneous GPO instruments?
    No. In fact, it would make it worse. DFD requires more work from the CPU, and that's the problem -- your CPU is not powerful enough to handle the demands of so many simultaneous instruments.

    Quote Originally Posted by SPF
    (3) I've concluded that my best option for running my "full" orchestra with DP may be to start adding Mac Minis that function only as sample farms (since my dual G4 1.25GHz can't seem to handle this size orchestra). However, the Mini only comes as an Intel Mac now, and I see reported here that GPO works like piss under Rosetta.
    Sure, you could do this, but I don't think that's a very good solution. Really, you'd be much better off replacing your dual G4 tower with a Mac Pro (once all the relevant software is Universalized, of course).

    Quote Originally Posted by SPF
    (a) I have been searching the NI web site for some clue as to whether there will be a Kontakt Player for Intel Macs, and can find nothing. Does anyone on this forum have any indications?
    http://www.native-instruments.com/in...id=intelmac_us

    Quote Originally Posted by SPF
    (b) Does or will GPO with DP utilize dual processor capabilities, such as I currently have with a G4 or may have in each Intel Mac Mini if I shell out the extra $200.
    OS X itself is heavily optimized for multiple processors -- even if the applications themselves aren't. My understanding is that the OS will at least try to run, e.g., DP on one processor(/core) and GPO on the other. But again, you really don't want a mini for this. What you want is a quad-core Mac Pro with RAM to spare. The Core Solo 1.5 GHz mini probably won't run the (hopefully coming soon!) Universal K2 Player+GPO much better than your dual 1.25 GHz G4 currently does. The Core Duo 1.66 GHz mini might be a little better, but I suspect even that would still be inadequate for heavy orchestral use. I would counsel you to save your pesos until you can afford to replace your aging G4 tower.

    Even if you stick with your existing plan, you'd want to wait until the Mac mini is updated to include the Core 2 chips. The current line of Mac minis is frankly not much of an improvement over the G4-based minis. At the moment, I would not advise anyone to buy any Mac other than the Mac Pro. If you want a notebook or iMac, you should definitely hold off until the Core 2 versions are released. (Which should happen sometime within the next couple of months.)

  6. #6

    Re: GPO full and Kontact 2 player

    Quote Originally Posted by SPF
    (1) Is there any advantage to loading GPO programs into full Kontakt 1.5 in terms of saving overhead associated with multiple instances of Kontakt Player? I have been using four instances of GPO Kontakt Player to get my "full orchestra," but my dual G4 can't handle all instruments playing at once.
    I haven't done any controlled tests but probably not, since each instance appears to use a common Kontakt engine. This use of the same engine is why separate instances can only be set to identical pedal modes. This will change with the new K2 player but tests would need to be conducted to see the comparison. I've never done, nor heard info about, any actual test comparisons for K1.5 in player and full versions.

    (2) Even though DFD is discouraged becasue GPO is a small footprint library, would htere be an advantage to DFD when I try to sound 32 simultaneous GPO instruments?
    Probably not since it brings into play the CPU and HD demands of streaming but you could try it and, under controlled conditions, see if you observe any difference for your particular hardware. By the way, our non-recommendation of DFD goes beyond just the footprint issue. Loading GPO in RAM gives higher performance in polyphony (almost double the performance on my system) and avoids some loop limitations that exist only for DFD streaming - specifically, any loop crossfades that exist at the zone (not sample) level will not be read properly in DFD (translation: Possible clicks at loop points.) Also, some loops will not work at all in DFD. Finally, note stealing for instruments like piano can cause problems in DFD. As you can see, there are many reasons we recommend only RAM.

    (3) I've concluded that my best option for running my "full" orchestra with DP may be to start adding Mac Minis that function only as sample farms (since my dual G4 1.25GHz can't seem to handle this size orchestra). However, the Mini only comes as an Intel Mac now, and I see reported here that GPO works like piss under Rosetta.
    I have no information about this one.
    (a) I have been searching the NI web site for some clue as to whether there will be a Kontakt Player for Intel Macs, and can find nothing. Does anyone on this forum have any indications?
    Any support for MacIntel will be in the new Kontakt 2 player and it will almost certainly happen at some point. For GPO and JABB it will depend on two things: When we release the K2 versions and when NI implements the support. I have no dates on either.
    (b) Does or will GPO with DP utilize dual processor capabilities, such as I currently have with a G4 or may have in each Intel Mac Mini if I shell out the extra $200.
    That's entirely up to Native Instruments. I haven't heard anything on the subject.

    Even rumors are greatly appreciated.
    If it's rumors you want I'm sure I can invent some amazing ones - oh, you want rumors that have a chance of being true . . . sorry.

    Tom

  7. #7

    Re: GPO full and Kontact 2 player

    Thad beat me to the "post" button. I'll leave my reply up because it has some extra info on RAM vs. DFD. Thad has better Mac-related info. Thanks Thad.

    Tom

  8. #8

    Re: GPO full and Kontact 2 player

    Thanks very much Thad and Tom. Very informative. You are true gentlemen.

    I bet $50 today that another half gig of RAM will help somewhat. I only had 1.5 GB in the thing and it can apparently handle up to 2 GB.

    Other than that, I will heed your advice and save my remaining pesos...yet again...for a Mac Pro.

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