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Topic: VI Orchestral Strings vs. SISS?

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  1. #1

    VI Orchestral Strings vs. SISS?

    I'm going to be looking to get another string library soon. Before I get opinions on this, I'll tell you what I currently have and what I like/dislike about each one:

    GOS:
    Likes: violin grand sustains are "epic", nice vibrato (espressivo) on violins, pizzicatos are warm
    Dislikes: too much of a "signature" sound (GOS is too easily identifiable in a mix), cello/bass aggressive staccatos are still too weak (not sharp enough), legato tool doesn't sound realistic

    Opus 1 & 2:
    Likes: strings are "crisp" and not as washed out as GOS, muted strings rock, staccatos are SHARP and fast
    Dislikes: violins sustains lack life and are flat-sounding, pizzicatos are too "woody"/clicky, legato on some strings is VERY jumpy/poorly programmed

    I'm looking for a new string library, mostly strong in the violin sections.. something that has rich vibrato like GOS, but can perform a bit better out of the box. SISS costs $995, but I figure, if VI Orchestral Strings I is better, then I'll get that since it's the same price. Of course, VIOS I only has violins/violas. VIOS II has cellos/basses and is another $1000 But I feel my lower strings are OK for now.. it's mostly the violins and violas I need to update and get a better sound out of.

    Any suggestions? I suppose I'll post a reference clip showing the kind of sound I really want:

    http://www.samhulick.com/misc/strings_ref.mp3

    Obviously this is live and samples aren't perfect, but note how the violins have a nice connected legato & consistent attack.. I wouldn't attempt a passage like this with Opus 1, the violin legato is inconsistent and jumpy. For those who have experienced both SISS and VI, which would you say is better suited to reproduce (or I guess I should say "approximate") the above track?

    Thanks for any advice.
    Sam Hulick
    Composer
    http://www.samhulick.com/

  2. #2
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    Re: VI Orchestral Strings vs. SISS?

    I would have to say EastWest.. There sound is just full of life for me.. Have also the others librarys you mentioned.. Just not the same.. My thoughts of course.. Since I am one who is obsessed by Violins..Hope this helps...Joseph..

  3. #3

    Re: VI Orchestral Strings vs. SISS?

    me thinks you might want to consider having matching sections - it might be hard to match Vns from one library with low strings from another Sam.

    the SI strings are great when you need a more intimate sound, but not my first choice when i'm looking for something big. they do layer great tho with other libs. (i haven't tried layering them with GOS tho...)

    just my 2¢

    john
    John DeBorde

    Composer of Music for Film, TV and Interactive Media

  4. #4
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    Re: VI Orchestral Strings vs. SISS?

    Quote Originally Posted by MDesigner
    Any suggestions? I suppose I'll post a reference clip showing the kind of sound I really want:

    http://www.samhulick.com/misc/strings_ref.mp3
    Yeah - you find a lib. that sounds like that, and you be sure to let me know, k? I know you said, "Obviously this is live and samples aren't perfect..." but you have to realize - that is the the London Philharmonic recorded at Abbey Road and/or The Colosseum at Waterford Town Hall, with musicians playing instruments that range in price from $50,000 on up. I have news for you - there are real orchestras that wish they could sound like that.

    Personally, I think it's more what you do with the samples than anything else. There are peices of music floating around out there that sound great using one particular lib., and other peices that don't sound that great using the same lib., because of what the composer did/didn't do. Bearing in mind you want something that can perform a bit better out of the box - I would have to agree with mech289, assuming you go for Platinum. Using all three mic positions will yield great results with very little tweaking, IMHO.

    Cheers.

  5. #5

    Re: VI Orchestral Strings vs. SISS?

    The first musical phrase on your mp3 has to short detache legato notes followed by a sustain note. ect.. and as far as i can remember, only VSL has performence detache, and they are great , at least, the one i have which is chamber strings (Horizon format).

    BTW, VSL ch. strings is other option i would be looking into if i were you. even tho its call chamber, it dosn't mean it's only good for that. The idea here is to layer your existing Opus with Chamber.

    Here are all the legato pach in chamber strings(6-Violins):

    perf. leg p.(slow)
    perf. leg f. (slow)
    perf. det (leg det)
    perf. leg f. portamento
    perf. leg p.(fast)
    perf. leg f. (fast)
    perf. leg f. sul
    perf. spic (i just realyze i never tried that one)

    And that is just the legato pach, there's also perf-rep-leg, perf-rep-port,
    perf-rep-stac. And if you get it in K2 format, you can add even more script like Big Bob's script to your sustain pach.

    So you can emagine all the combinasion you can do...

    Layer perf. leg f + perf leg f. sul + perf det + sus patch(with script) and you have 24 Violins(and more) with the benefit of having them starting at defferent time in space( 1 or 2 tic behind or in advance...) for a more realistic effect, and mix them where you want them to... you know, nothing prevent you from layering perf leg p(fast) + perf. leg f(fast) ect...you could also add some script to you sus(Opus)patch and layer, and layer for ever.

    I just don't see how you could go wrong with this one, i love it. You can also get it in VI format but then it's lock so no more script. The new VI has some pretty exiting feature from what i can here. But Whatch out for the upgrade pricing tho. ''Note'' that it will not exactly sound good riht out of the box like SISS or EWSO but you have way more musical phrase options, and mixing options too IMO.

    SISS: #1 for sustain(pads like) right out of the box. Lots of effect, to Violins sections in place. but more intimate, but could be mix with Opus to sound bigger.

    EWSO: Has some really good strings but i would recommend the full packacj like Gold pro XP. The tuning is not great at time but it has caracter. Not good for fast passages... But since you seem to be focus on strings, this may not be what you want...

    he he! long post.

    P.S. Chamber strings has been produce after Opus and i think they got better, i prefer the leg pach from Chamber than Opus.

    Good luck!

  6. #6

    Re: VI Orchestral Strings vs. SISS?

    Oh! I forgot. Chamber strings is like 600$ So that leave room for VSL Solo strings , which is like 50 GB of what many consider, the best solo string.
    So you could layer even more...

  7. #7

    Re: VI Orchestral Strings vs. SISS?

    VSL VI is very easy to use ... many parameters (filter, attack control, release control, etc etc) and the GUI can be updates (version 1.06 now but they're talking about version 1.1 and later, v2) ... all "speed" matrixes are useful (you play fast, slow, it chooses the good patch) ... you don't program your music, you PLAY your music !!!

    I thing you'll have a good result with chamber string and (if you want) solo strings.

  8. #8

    Re: VI Orchestral Strings vs. SISS?

    The strings in Kirk Hunter's Emerald sound pretty darned good right out of the box.
    Composer, Logic Certified Trainer, Level 2,
    author of "Going Pro with Logic Pro 9."

    www.jayasher.com

  9. #9
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    Re: VI Orchestral Strings vs. SISS?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiffWraith
    Yeah - you find a lib. that sounds like that, and you be sure to let me know, k? I know you said, "Obviously this is live and samples aren't perfect..." but you have to realize - that is the the London Philharmonic recorded at Abbey Road and/or The Colosseum at Waterford Town Hall, with musicians playing instruments that range in price from $50,000 on up. I have news for you - there are real orchestras that wish they could sound like that.

    Personally, I think it's more what you do with the samples than anything else. There are peices of music floating around out there that sound great using one particular lib., and other peices that don't sound that great using the same lib., because of what the composer did/didn't do. Bearing in mind you want something that can perform a bit better out of the box - I would have to agree with mech289, assuming you go for Platinum. Using all three mic positions will yield great results with very little tweaking, IMHO.

    Cheers.
    In my opinion , no libraries can actually reach realistic big string sounds. But it's getting better and better. The pro expansion for gold/platinum East west solved the problem of fast repeated staccatos. It's absolutely greaaat ! We can really do fast and big staccatos phrases with it, it's a must-have.


    Now we have to solve the problem of slow and lush string phrases. I dont think it has something to do with the orchestra used. Because even an average string orchestra would sound better than all the strings libraries actually on the market.
    When we play strings chords with platinum, it sounds great. But as soon as we do phrases, it sounds pretty bad. Even the VSL true legato for violins sound weird to my ears, its good , but i still hear a kind of "sucking" effect between each notes. And not to mention the overall sound of these strings, its too much flat for me.
    In fact, when we hear real recordings, violins often play beautiful melodic lines with a small bit of portamento between each notes , not a strong one, but a little one. I think it's one of the problem in the VSL legato.

    The best results for strings are done with EWQLSO, but it still sounds weird when doing slow lines. I dont think it's because of the quality of the musicians. But rather the recording ( and the nature of sampling of course)

    There's one string library that really shines in my opinion , it's the VSL Chamber strings, wow ! Too bad they didnt reach such a quality with bigger strings.

    Please excuse my english ,

    John

  10. #10
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    Re: VI Orchestral Strings vs. SISS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashermusic
    The strings in Kirk Hunter's Emerald sound pretty darned good right out of the box.
    I listened to some demos. Sounds good for a sampling library indeed, but still there is something strange in the overall sound. It's funny because i couldnt explain what's wrong with this sample library ( and all the others )
    Let's take this demo :

    http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/VnSecLeg.mp3

    I dont know whats going on when i listen to it, but my ears dont like, its too ... it's too harsh perhaps ? real recordings of strings sound a lot more "smooth" ! It's hard to explain

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