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Topic: RIAA conducting "reign of terror"

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  1. #1
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    RIAA conducting "reign of terror"

    According to Newsforge:

    "The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) is waging a "reign of terror" against "defenseless people" in its efforts to prosecute people for illegal music downloads. So says Ray Beckerman, a lawyer with the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) and the law firm of Vandenberg & Feliu in New York.

    ...Beckerman described what he alleges are the typical tactics used by the RIAA in suing individuals in the United States and other countries, and two of the cases that might become landmarks in the struggles against the RIAA's actions.

    According to Beckerman, the RIAA has brought 19,000 cases against private individuals. "You have a multi-billion-dollar cartel suing all sorts of people who have no resources whatsoever to withstand these litigations," Beckerman says. His concern is that "due to the adversarial nature of justice, the RIAA will be successful in rewriting copyright law," particularly if the technological community does not resist."
    Yikes 19,000 cases. RIAA sure knows how to win friends.

  2. #2

    Re: RIAA conducting "reign of terror"

    These articles are written by libertarian computer geeks who are not professional musicians.

    They view any attempt by organizations to collect royalties on behalf of musicians as "evil thievery" to quote a recent post on Slashdot.

    If computer engineers had to earn a living by collecting royalties on their labor like musicians do, they would have a very different attitude about all this.

    The RIAA is the industry group representing the record labels who finance and market the music, and pass the royalties on to the musicians. It's the organization that provides and encourages the legal framework under which recording musicians make a living, nothing more.

    I used to work for Sony Music back in the days before civilians were on the Internet, and I was not a greedy, evil thief for doing so.

  3. #3

    Re: RIAA conducting "reign of terror"

    By golly, them RIAA Mercenaries was at my back
    porch t'a other day, but I fought 'em off, I did,
    popped a few of 'em right between the eyes.
    No way was they gittin' my illegal Britney, no sir;
    I stole it fair and square.

    Seriously, I don't know that any amount of
    litigation or legistlation aimed at individuals on
    the receiving end of the ill-gotten goods will
    ever do more than create enormous ill will and
    many rich lawyers.

    And mind you, I think musicians and all artists
    should get every nickel they're due... society
    already pays most of them far too meanly.

    My own opinion, such as it is, is that RIAA
    really should be aiming much more of their heavy
    artillery at the pipelines.

    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .

  4. #4
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
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    Re: RIAA conducting "reign of terror"

    I don't agree with people ripping off stuff, but it's hard to imaging that it is as big and as costly as the effort underway to stop them. In other words i guess what I'm trying to say is, if someone doesn't pay for stuff, and you make it where they cant do that anymore. even if it causes alot of extra crap for the paying customers, will the nonpayers suddenly start paying? Probably not, it seems like a giant waste of resources to me. Does anyone know what the percentage is of people that rip off music, instead of paying? I bet it is very small. They sometimes tell how much is ripped off, a huge number, but in addition to it seeming unlikely that they would actually really know how much, it isn't given in the proper context like a percentage or camparing it to the amount of legit sales.

    Ok thats my two cents, rant over.

  5. #5

    Re: RIAA conducting "reign of terror"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat Williams
    These articles are written by libertarian computer geeks who are not professional musicians.

    They view any attempt by organizations to collect royalties on behalf of musicians as "evil thievery" to quote a recent post on Slashdot.

    If computer engineers had to earn a living by collecting royalties on their labor like musicians do, they would have a very different attitude about all this....
    And yet music production software has the most draconian copy protection systems! One would think that people who depend on the sanctity of intellectual property rights would not be inclined to steal it themselves --eliminating the need for SW copy protection for their tools.

  6. #6

    Re: RIAA conducting "reign of terror"

    Quote Originally Posted by jrboddie
    And yet music production software has the most draconian copy protection systems! One would think that people who depend on the sanctity of intellectual property rights would not be inclined to steal it themselves --eliminating the need for SW copy protection for their tools.
    I was going to just enjoy this thread till I read this!

    I wish I knew for certain that music professionals were really stealing software and sample libraries, it would be amusing.

    I've worked in and around professional audio for over 30 years, and I may just be in the wrong place, but I can count on one hand the number of studios that had any illegaly obtained software. Perhaps they hid it? Perhaps I really am in the wrong place, but my experience has been that the people who use this stuff buy it.

    The real problem is the kiddies who steal it, and use it for whatever reason. Their usual argument, stupid though it may be, is that they wouldn't use it if they had to pay for it, and that's probably true. 99% of these idiots are not using the software to make a living, or even a profit, they are just playing around.

    They are stealing, and no punishment is severe enough, but the end result is that people who pay for the tools (a) pay more to help the developers recover some of those loses, and (b) put up with draconian copy protection schemes.

    I've heard the same argument about pirating music and movies, and it is still pretty darned stupid. "I wouldn't listen to it if I had to pay for it" Do they really believe it?

    As far as the RIAA and other groups efforts to try to stem the tide goes, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand if they are successful in their lawsuits, and they do it often enough they might (emphasis on might) actually discourage some folks.

    In the end the answer is not lawsuits or even copy protection schemes, it is education. People, and for the most part I am talking about younger generations unfortunately, need to learn that there is a value to rewarding people for creative efforts. They will eventually learn this when people stop being creative, but that's going to take a while.

    One of the ironies is that the really big performers don't really feel the pinch, but artists just starting out do.

    But in the meantime someone has to do something, and since they are trying I am hoping they are successful. There is far too much intellectual property out there on the net for the taking.

    I used to think that this was an urban myth, but in fact you can find even multi-DVD sample libraries on the binary newsgroups, which anyone can access.

    One of the things that really upsets me is that peer-to-peer technology has been smeared by the pirates. Some one just showed me a web site where you can find ISO images of pretty much any movie or television show you can imagine. And they are all available as torrents.

    The piracy is out of control, and I guess for the short term anyway we need to accept that the counter measures are going to be equally outrageous.

    Attacking the pipelines is going to have mixed success. In the case of a pirate who uploads the stuff regularly (for whatever reason motivates them - I sure wouldn't do that much work for nothing) I think going after them makes sense. The companies that manufacture CDs and DVDs should also be targets.

    But going after the peer-to-peer networks, or ISPs that unknowingly provide web space to pirate ftp sites is going to be difficult, and in the end pointless. When one ISP loses a lawsuit and cracks down the pirates will move to a different provider. And there are a lot of providers. Not to mention cracking down is difficult.

    Back in the early 1990s I was the IT manager for a small manufacturer. We put up a web site. Some brat hijacked our server and turned it into a pirate ftp site. We found him months later when bandwidth usage finally got high enough to be odd. Disk space was never a problem.

    And going after teenagers who regularly steal music probably won't have much of an effect since teenagers are pretty sure it won't happen to them... but hey, it is worth a try.

    I have a teenage step-daughter, and I've tried very hard to impress upon her that stealing music and software is bad. She seems to get it at some level, I haven't caught her downloading anything she shouldn't in a long time. But if a friend gives her a pirated CD she doesn't seem to mind. It's just dang difficult to really get the message across.

    Maybe penalties will have an impact?

    I don't know...

  7. #7

    Re: RIAA conducting "reign of terror"

    The Pirate Bay raids recently are a prime example. If you try and take down their servers, someone else will just restart them.

    Also, having music pirated sends a mixed message to me. On the downside, I'm losing money. Yet, on the upside, people are actually listening to my msuic. Although, I'm a small artist and pirating to me doesn't seem to be a big thing...I give my music out for free on this site anyways.
    Colton J. Provias
    Film Score Composer, Location Sound Mixer, and Sound Editor
    Full-stack Web Developer

  8. #8

    Re: RIAA conducting "reign of terror"

    Quote Originally Posted by C J Pro
    The Pirate Bay raids recently are a prime example. If you try and take down their servers, someone else will just restart them.

    Also, having music pirated sends a mixed message to me. On the downside, I'm losing money. Yet, on the upside, people are actually listening to my msuic. Although, I'm a small artist and pirating to me doesn't seem to be a big thing...I give my music out for free on this site anyways.

    The curious part is CJ, the serial downloaders would just as likely leave you alone, or limit their activities in your case. There's a big difference between you, a single human being who can be empathised with, and identified, and a giant corporation who has no discernible face.
    Call it a 'rebel streak', and support for the underdog, but i don't think you'd lose the same percentage to downloaders as Sony, Emi, or the others.

    Particularly if your presentation included some blurb telling everyone you're working for a living as a one man operator, and you won't treat the customers like criminals to begin with, by restricting them with CP.

    I suppose a couple of pics of a homemaker wife and cute kids in the living room helping you wrap CD's and write the addresses on the parcels would help too!


    Alex.


  9. #9
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: RIAA conducting "reign of terror"

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan
    According to Newsforge:

    "The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) is waging a "reign of terror" against "defenseless people" in its efforts to prosecute people for illegal music downloads. So says Ray Beckerman, a lawyer with the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) and the law firm of Vandenberg & Feliu in New York.

    ...Beckerman described what he alleges are the typical tactics used by the RIAA in suing individuals in the United States and other countries, and two of the cases that might become landmarks in the struggles against the RIAA's actions.

    According to Beckerman, the RIAA has brought 19,000 cases against private individuals. "You have a multi-billion-dollar cartel suing all sorts of people who have no resources whatsoever to withstand these litigations," Beckerman says. His concern is that "due to the adversarial nature of justice, the RIAA will be successful in rewriting copyright law," particularly if the technological community does not resist."
    Yikes 19,000 cases. RIAA sure knows how to win friends.
    I wonder how this Beckerman fellow would feel if someone were stealing from him? It never ceases to amaze me how easily people forget the very basic fact that stealing is stealing is stealing.

    On the other hand, I could not agree more about the draconian nature of "copy protection" schemes. I had to add two different dongles to my rig recently, and as if the disk-based stuff wasn't enough trouble, these things cause headache after headache. It's ironic that the technology curve has finally reached a place where we have enough horsepower to really do the job--and now the damned copy protection schemes are hosing our machines right back to a crawl.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
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    Re: RIAA conducting "reign of terror"

    Bruce, that was also the point I was trying to make, just not as clear as you. In addition to not seeing how the theft is an actual physical loss if most would not pay anyway, I think the people stealing need to get caught and probably the people that should be catching them are just the local cops, but don't think the sofware and music cd's or dvd's should have stuff on them for protections. The paying customers are right now being penalized and the theives are not, plus we are probably also paying a higher price because of the r&d of the mad scientists that are inventing dongles and stuff.

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