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Topic: Woodwind vibrato in Finale 2006

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  1. #1

    Question Woodwind vibrato in Finale 2006

    Surprising as it may seem, I started this process by reading the manual. It says to add vibrato, I need to turn it on and set its depth with aftertouch, and control its speed with CC17.

    So, I created a note expression that sends Controller 131, value 127 (probably too much but at least I could hear it), and a second note expression that sends Controller 17, value 50. I applied these expressions to subsequent notes to a JABB Soprano sax line, in that order.

    I got nada. Not even the slightest quaver.

    I don't know what else to try. I've tried several different controller numbers instead of 131 (depending on what internet source you want to believe) and none of them work.

    I just want a little vibrato...any help is most welcome.
    Thanks,
    Robert

  2. #2

    Re: Woodwind vibrato in Finale 2006

    Robert, you need to use aftertouch or "channel pressure".

    Take a look at the vibrato section of my tutorial HERE
    Richard N.

    Finale 2003 to 2007 ~ Garritan GPO, JABB & Strad ~ Sonar 6PE ~ Kontakt 2 ~ WinXP Home SP2

    Athlon XP 2200 ~ 1.5 Gb RAM ~ M-Audio Sound Card ~ M-Audio 88ES MIDI keyboard ~ Evolution MK-461C

    Bach Strad LT16MG, LT36G, 42B + B&H Sovereign Studio Tenor Trombones ~ Holton 181 Bass Trombone ~ Getzen Bass Trumpet ~ Yamaha TR4335G Trumpet ~ B&H Euphonium

  3. #3

    Re: Woodwind vibrato in Finale 2006

    Just to clarify one point: cc131 only applies to M-Audio hardware controllers that lack aftertouch. cc131 is outside the standard MIDI spec and was chosen by M-Audio to allow users to assign the aftertouch function to a slider or knob.

    Tom

  4. #4

    Smile Re: Woodwind vibrato in Finale 2006

    "Channel pressure" was the missing piece -- got it!

    (Insert muttered obscenities...you'd think that, since Garritan is trying to snuggle up to Finale, they'd be a little more aware of Finale users, and document the feature as "Aftertouch (in some programs termed 'channel pressure')", especially since Finale's expression menu doesn't provide for "aftertouch." I'm constantly amazed/dismayed at the amount of "oral history" (AKA "users helping users") that substitutes for real documentation for sound-sample software... I came THIS close to contacting Nemesys in the early days of Gigasampler to offer to write their documentation for them, for free, if they'd just tell me how the $#%$% thing worked...and I see that things haven't change much. Oh well.)

    Thank YOU for your assistance!
    Robert

  5. #5

    Re: Woodwind vibrato in Finale 2006

    Well, Robert, there is certainly a lot of pent-up frustration overflowing in your post, and it all seems to have landed in our lap. As to your “muttered” complaint: Sorry we didn't include the alternate term “channel pressure” in the information about Aftertouch but things like this can be difficult to cover considering the large number of host program choices available and their inconsistent use of terminology. For instance, we chose to use the term “Aftertouch” because it is, by far, the most commonly used name for this feature. Also, the documentation for GPO was written and printed some time before any working relationship was developed with any particular host software producers. Specifically, using your example, we were unaware at the time the GPO documentation was written that Finale didn't use the term “Aftertouch.” We weren't working with Finale then. Now that we are aware of this, information can, of course, be added to future documentation to clarify. When something like this is brought to our attention we usually try to address it in a future update to minimize confusion wherever possible. That's about the best we can do until (if) complete standardization of terms comes to pass within the industry.

    Honestly, we weren't deliberately - or even inadvertently - trying to lay a terminology trap for you. We really don't want our users to be wandering in the dark, bumping into unseen obstacles – it's not good for them and not good for us. One of the reasons we have and maintain this forum is so that just this sort of question can be asked and answered. We deliberately do our best to foster “users helping users” on this forum and, fortunately, it works quite well as an adjunct to the written documentation. As evidenced by Richard N., we have some of the most knowledgeable users around, which is a great help because much of the time a user like Richard will correctly answer a question before I even see the question posted. I always smile when accurate information is supplied by our users, saving me the need to post. On those occasions when the user-supplied answer is not quite on the mark I will step in with a correction or clarification. Sometimes the answer is correct but I may feel that additional information could be helpful. In that case I will post the additional information (as I did this time.)

    If all else fails, you can send us a private message or an email. I can't guarantee that we will always have the answer to a specific question but between Garritan and our users on this forum most questions get answered. At least that is the way we intend it to work. Our base of knowledgeable users is one of our strongest assets – and one of yours too, as you just saw.

    Tom

  6. #6

    Smile Re: Woodwind vibrato in Finale 2006

    Tom, my opinion of you folks just went UP, about ten thousand percent.

    Thank you SO much for your kind, informative, and probably more patient than I deserved, reply.

    I spent twenty-five years in the documentation business: always the last to be called in, usually given a prototype that inevitably veered away from the destination to which we were assured it was headed when we handed in our documentation, whose due date was *always* significantly earlier than the product's (so we were guaranteed from the get-go that it wouldn't match)...

    So I know how it works in the real world; I guess my frustration is as much at that "real world" as it is with any given product... But thank heavens for the Great Community of Users, whose generosity benefits us all. It's becoming a more wiki world every day, it seems.

    Thank you again.
    Robert

  7. #7

    Smile Re: Woodwind vibrato in Finale 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard N.
    Robert, you need to use aftertouch or "channel pressure".

    Take a look at the vibrato section of my tutorial HERE
    Went there (clicked on it), found a generic site that wanted to sell Duke Ellington records. I guess he knew something about vibrato, but didn't know he was a GPO cat too,.

  8. #8

    Re: Woodwind vibrato in Finale 2006

    Thanks for the heads-up. It looks like I've been hacked!

    EDIT: it was actually an unpaid invoice!

    Hopefully the tutorial will be back up and running very soon.
    Richard N.

    Finale 2003 to 2007 ~ Garritan GPO, JABB & Strad ~ Sonar 6PE ~ Kontakt 2 ~ WinXP Home SP2

    Athlon XP 2200 ~ 1.5 Gb RAM ~ M-Audio Sound Card ~ M-Audio 88ES MIDI keyboard ~ Evolution MK-461C

    Bach Strad LT16MG, LT36G, 42B + B&H Sovereign Studio Tenor Trombones ~ Holton 181 Bass Trombone ~ Getzen Bass Trumpet ~ Yamaha TR4335G Trumpet ~ B&H Euphonium

  9. #9

    Re: Woodwind vibrato in Finale 2006

    Just a quick note to say that after a couple of weeks of my website being "down", this tutorial is now again available.
    Richard N.

    Finale 2003 to 2007 ~ Garritan GPO, JABB & Strad ~ Sonar 6PE ~ Kontakt 2 ~ WinXP Home SP2

    Athlon XP 2200 ~ 1.5 Gb RAM ~ M-Audio Sound Card ~ M-Audio 88ES MIDI keyboard ~ Evolution MK-461C

    Bach Strad LT16MG, LT36G, 42B + B&H Sovereign Studio Tenor Trombones ~ Holton 181 Bass Trombone ~ Getzen Bass Trumpet ~ Yamaha TR4335G Trumpet ~ B&H Euphonium

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