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Topic: Giga plugin latency - this can't be real???

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  1. #1

    Unhappy Giga plugin latency - this can't be real???

    Gutted. I was so happy about taking advantage of Scarbee's recent half-price sale and snapping up the VKFX cheap. Looking forward to running them on my live rig to further beautify his beautiful Rhodes and Wurly samples.

    Install the VST dll - all fine. Register it in the VST plugin manager - fine. Load it into the slot pertaining to the Rhodes - fine.

    Go to play it, and the latency is like nothing I've ever heard before!

    It's set at 2048 samples, which gives me 43ms! And I can't work out a way to change it. How is one seriously expected to play like this?

    I'm using an Esi Waveterminal 192L soundcard, and the card's latency is set to 512 samples. Is Giga's plugin latency automatically 4 x the card latency? (and if so, why so much?) Or is the figure of 2048 set by some other factor?

    I suppose I could experiment with getting the card latency down to the absolute minimum, so that Giga's is just bearable, but I don't want to. This is a live gigging system, and I need to put stability above everything. As it stands at the moment it's snappy enough but well solid too - I don't particularly feel like pushing everything else to the brink (I run other programs on it as well) just for the sake of Giga's plugin implementation.

    This is crazy. Support for VST plugins was touted as one of the great advantages of Giga 3. Did they just forget to mention that they would be absolutely unplayable? Or is there something else I can do about it?

  2. #2

    Re: Giga plugin latency - this can't be real???

    Plugins run in GS 3 are not latency compensated. It is not possible if they wanted to implement it. For technical reasons, only the host can compensate. There is no protocol to allow GS to tell the host which plugins it is running and have the host compensate for that.

    If your plugin(s) has 0 latency, then there is no problem. Many, like yours, have greater than 0 latency.

    You can, however, run GS in rewire mode and run plugins on the audio output of GS coming into your host input as an insert or send as necessary and the latency there will be compensated for.

    Another alternative will be to get the hopefully-very-soon-to-be-released GVI, which will run as a VST instrument. You'll then be able to run everything inside your host and latency and delay compensation will be taken care of automatically by your host.

    Actually though, if the VST effects latency is a certain amount (say 2048 samples in this case?), the best that any host can do is compensate for it during playback. If you need to play it live, regardless of delay/latency compensation or not, you will have the latency, because real-time latency compensation on a live performance is not possible. It would have to know what you were going to play before you played it.

    What is the actual reported latency of the effect you are running? Many hosts will report this in the plugins setup dialog.

    fizbin

  3. #3

    Re: Giga plugin latency - this can't be real???

    Quote Originally Posted by fizbin
    Another alternative will be to get the hopefully-very-soon-to-be-released GVI, which will run as a VST instrument. You'll then be able to run everything inside your host and latency and delay compensation will be taken care of automatically by your host.
    Yes, I'm thinking that might be the go, then put GVI in a slot in Chainer and just put the effect lower down the slot.

    Unfortunately, my hopes about the "very-soon-to-be-released" part are not as optimistic as yours. Remember how long Giga 3 was "very-soon-to-be-released"? The Tascam website says Spring 2006 - so expect beta testing by Christmas if we're lucky!

    Actually though, if the VST effects latency is a certain amount (say 2048 samples in this case?), the best that any host can do is compensate for it during playback. If you need to play it live, regardless of delay/latency compensation or not, you will have the latency, because real-time latency compensation on a live performance is not possible. It would have to know what you were going to play before you played it.
    But I don't think the 2048 samples is defined by the individual plugin, it's defined by Giga itself. It's reported in "System Settings" under the file menu, as a general setting that can't be changed, regardless of what's loaded.

    I've since established that this DOES seem to be derived from 4 times the soundcard latency, because it changes accordingly if I change the setting on my soundcard. When I put the card down to 256, Giga changes to 1024 and is almost playable at 23ms (though still pretty bad). However when I put the card down to 128, the system does indeed seem to work OK and other voices in Giga play fine, but the voice coming through the effect is terribly distorted. Can't seem to manage it.

    What is the actual reported latency of the effect you are running? Many hosts will report this in the plugins setup dialog.
    I'm not running it in a host other than Giga, just in Giga standalone. Maybe I'll try loading it up in Sonar on my studio system and see.

  4. #4

    Re: Giga plugin latency - this can't be real???

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch that hurts
    ...so expect beta testing by Christmas if we're lucky!
    From what I hear, GVI has been in beta testing since at least April. (I'm not a beta tester, so don't bother asking for details - and if I were beta testing, I wouldn't be able to say anything anyway.)

    Tascam wants to ensure that GVI gets a reputation for being very solid and reliable. They want to make it right, rather than release it ASAP with bugs to be fixed later. I think this is exactly the right approach.

    Considering the aggressive upgrade pricing, people can get GS3 today, and upgrade to GVI later, knowing that the development team has taken all steps to make it rock solid.

  5. #5

    Re: Giga plugin latency - this can't be real???

    I ran into the same problem fizbin did. I had 43 msec in plugin and rewire mode with 2048 samples. I played with audio options in Sonar and the M-Audio and got the plugin side down to 5msec. The rewire side is still at 42. How does one fix that or can you? I'm only running Sonar and Soundforge with GS3 orchestra.
    -Rajay

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