• Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Topic: At last! I can post my portamento problem

Share/Bookmark
  1. #1

    At last! I can post my portamento problem

    I have never been able to access the forum before. I registered but never got a confirmation message and could never get a response from the webmaster. Finally I emailed Gary Garritan in desperation and - hey - it's fixed!.
    (but there are a lot of other people with this problem - i.e can't access forum - I've been told on the Cakewalk forum, so hopefully someone can help them get registered properly at some stage). Anyway....

    I am now sincerely hoping someone can help me with my portamento problem. It really compromises my ability to use GPO creatively, unfortunately.

    Firstly, I understand and have looked at the portamento tutorial. However, my problem comes about from wanting to apply portamento in real time i.e while playing. As I understand it the tutorial techniques work with 'off line' alteration of MIDI messages after the performance has been captured.

    I am running 1.1.8.003 of the Kompakt player with all library updates for GPO (AFAIK) and currently my portamento behaviour is as follows:-

    1. Set the portamento knob to a non-zero value

    2. Press sustain

    3. Play some notes. Note that portamento is applied. So far so good.

    4. Release all notes

    5. Release sustain and play some notes. No portamento. Excellent!. BUT...

    6. Release all notes.

    7. Reapply sustain.

    8. Press another note pitched some distance from the notes played in step 3

    9. Note that an ugly glide occurs from the last note played during step 3

    This is not useable musically and not consistent with how portamento is implemented in other synths etc. What I really need is

    1. Play some notes without sustain. No portamento.
    2. Hold a note and THEN press sustain. Still no portamento
    3. Play another note with sustain held down. Portamento!.
    4. Repeat 3 as desired
    5. Release sustain. Play another note. No portamento
    6. Go to step 2 and repeat as required. Note that the first note in step 3 should NOT glide from any previous pitch UNLESS a note was held down at step 2, in which case it SHOULD.

    This would be exactly correct for realtime performance. But having a glide 'remembered' across pedal up/down sequences is just plain not good. Slightly less good but perhaps manageable is the other issue, that a note held prior to sustain down will not cause the following note played after sustain down to have portamento. It should. The word 'bug' springs to mind, not to put too fine a point on it.

    I appreciate that I can add portamento 'after the fact' by adding CC messages to a recorded performance. However, I want to add portamento as I play. Can anyone help?. Note that this behaviour exists both with GPO running standalone or hosted as a VST inside Sonar 3 professional (3.1.1)

  2. #2
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Chandler, Arizona
    Posts
    4,044

    Re: At last! I can post my portamento problem

    Portamento is a 2 controller process. You need to use the sustain and CC20 to set the speed of the glide. So when you stop the sustain pedal and then use it later you will get the same glide speed that you set CC20 to earlier. To make it stop you must lower CC20 down to 0. This allows you to use sustain for playing legato without portamento between notes. Also by changing the value of CC20 you can get different speed slides.

    Hopefully this makes sense. There was a tutorial that Tom Hopkins posted in the past that you may be able to find by doing a search on the forum.

    Jim

  3. #3

    Re: At last! I can post my portamento problem

    Thanks, I appreciate your help. But I am a bit puzzled by the answer. Portamento speed is effectively set by the position of the portamento knob, which can also, if I recall correctly, be set by sending a MIDI CC 20 with an appropriate amount. However, assume for a moment that we have set a certain fixed amount of portamento by setting the knob to a non-zero value and that we will leave the knob in that position.

    I understand entirely that therefore if I press sustain a second time I will still have the same portamento glide SPEED. After all, I haven't sent any CC 20s and I haven't moved the knob position. But this isn't the problem. The problem is that the initial note pitch from which the glide STARTS is incorrect. Kompakt is remembering the last note pitch played when sustain was previously down and will glide from THERE. It should not do that.

    Now it may well be that resetting the portamento rate also clears this - so that if I sent a CC message to do this, I could resolve the bug, but this will mean that I have to write an MFX plugin for Sonar to do this. I am nearly at the point of doing this but it distresses me that, what, two years or more after GPO was first released, this problem has still not been fixed by NI. I can find other threads which imply there really is a bug here, by the way.

  4. #4

    Re: At last! I can post my portamento problem

    You are right insofar, that if you depress sustain after hitting the first note, CC#20 will not give you a portamento when you hit the second note, and if you depress sustain before hitting note#1 you get this ugly slide into note#1. But this is exactly the kind of situation where you should use CC#19=127, because you move from a non-legato layer (note#1) to a legato layer (note#2), if you depress sustain after note#1 and before note#2.

  5. #5

    Re: At last! I can post my portamento problem

    could someone please post a "how to", or Portamento for Dummies here, so that I can finally udnerstand what I need to do if ever I want to get a simili-portamento out of my GPO!!!!

    If there were a way of doing it with examples, it would be even better.
    I would like to figure out how to do this from within Finale. I KNOW Finale can handle any MIDI controller, and I can make a bunch of invisible expressions anyways.

    and... speak... slowly...





    oh!



    and use simple words!

  6. #6

    Re: At last! I can post my portamento problem

    Well, yes. Real-time portamento for dummies. All I want is some magic method for playing portamento live, not post-facto hacks with MIDI CCs. Can it be done?. Can it be done with some kind of plugin e.g maybe one of Tencrazy's magic mungers?. I can imagine, I suppose, simultaneously turning three knobs on my BCR2000 to make it happen apart from a general shortage of fingers, so the ideal live solution is 'can it be done with one hand and a spare foot'. Any ideas?. I am baffled as to why this doesn't seem to be more of an issue. How can you play realistic string and brass lines without portamento?. Or is everyone tweaking sequences afterwards?. The thought of that just causes my will to live to ebb slowly away.....

    PS: I have a sustain pedal and I have a continuously variable expression pedal and, er, I know how to use them.... I can map the expression pedal to any CC I like via the Tencrazy plugin - I had it rotating the portamento knob at one stage. Can this somehow be made to work for me?.

  7. #7

    Re: At last! I can post my portamento problem

    Quote Originally Posted by qccowboy
    could someone please post a "how to", or Portamento for Dummies here.. .....from within Finale. I KNOW Finale can handle any MIDI controller, and I can make a bunch of invisible expressions anyways.

    and... speak... slowly...
    QC - have a look at this page from my JABB/F2k6 tutorial - the principals are the same for GPO:

    http://www.stradjazz.com/Tutorial/FinaleJABB/port.htm
    Richard N.

    Finale 2003 to 2007 ~ Garritan GPO, JABB & Strad ~ Sonar 6PE ~ Kontakt 2 ~ WinXP Home SP2

    Athlon XP 2200 ~ 1.5 Gb RAM ~ M-Audio Sound Card ~ M-Audio 88ES MIDI keyboard ~ Evolution MK-461C

    Bach Strad LT16MG, LT36G, 42B + B&H Sovereign Studio Tenor Trombones ~ Holton 181 Bass Trombone ~ Getzen Bass Trumpet ~ Yamaha TR4335G Trumpet ~ B&H Euphonium

  8. #8
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Chandler, Arizona
    Posts
    4,044

    Re: At last! I can post my portamento problem

    I personally do mine manually to get just the right amount of speed depending on the interval I'm playing. I don't know if this is possible to do live with GPO at present. The Solo Strad is the only instrument that is really designed for this kind of realtime playing and it uses a different kind of scripting than what GPO uses. Kontakt 1.53 which GPO was programmed in doesn't have scripting capabilities.

    Jim

Go Back to forum

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •