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Topic: Chris Hein Horns (vs Garritan JABB) - Fully polyphonic?

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  1. #1

    Chris Hein Horns (vs Garritan JABB) - Fully polyphonic?

    I've just discovered the limitation of Garritan's Jazz and Big Band collection, that I bought some time ago but hadn't got around to using - that the horns are all monophonic. Apparently there will be an update allowing them to be used polyphonically, but it won't allow for all the MIDI control of sound quality subtleties (growls, air flow etc)

    The significance of this for me is that I was hoping to use them in my live rig as well as in the studio. To do this, I need to be able to play chords. I currently use QLB in Giga, but was hoping to get better brass sounds and more expressive range. But I need to be able to play four or five note passages and have them realized in real time.

    Question: Does Chris Hein Horns have the same monophonic limitation? And if you CAN use it polyphonically, can you do so with full access to all the MIDI control of breath, growls etc? And if you CAN do this, how did Chris manage to pull it off while Gary says it's impossible while maintaining the advanced sound control?

    I don't mind stumping up the money for Chris's set if it will do the job as I want.

    Thanks.

  2. #2

    Re: Chris Hein Horns (vs Garritan JABB) - Fully polyphonic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch that hurts
    I've just discovered the limitation of Garritan's Jazz and Big Band collection, that I bought some time ago but hadn't got around to using - that the horns are all monophonic. Apparently there will be an update allowing them to be used polyphonically, but it won't allow for all the MIDI control of sound quality subtleties (growls, air flow etc)
    Actually, the update allowing polyphonic use has been out since January but you are correct that this is limited to the "lite" instruments with reduced features. If you haven't updated, please do so because the important changes are not limited to the addition of the "lite" instruments. It can be found here: http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ad.php?t=41107

    Question: Does Chris Hein Horns have the same monophonic limitation? And if you CAN use it polyphonically, can you do so with full access to all the MIDI control of breath, growls etc? And if you CAN do this, how did Chris manage to pull it off while Gary says it's impossible while maintaining the advanced sound control?
    I'm sure Chris can chime in with an answer about the features of his fine instruments but, in our case, it was not a matter of "impossible," it was a matter of a critical feature (tongue/slur capability as designed in our programming) that would need to be eliminated to accomplish the polyphonic behavior - and that was unacceptable, in my opinion. So, polyphonic behavior was supplied in the form of 'lite" instruments by programming in the same way as GPO so that the tongue/slur feature was not sacrificed (but some of the fancy features like air flow noise and key clicks were necessarily removed - since the GPO approach to programming won't support that.) Every programmer weighs the choices afforded by the platform and makes choices based on what he/she/they consider to be most important. As a consumer you must examine the choices and decide if they fit your needs. I've stated before, on other threads, that I don't consider live performance to be a particularly practical use of JABB, in its present form, because of the multitude of controllers for sculpting various aspects of the sound - something not easily done in real-time. Future scripting developments may make both choice of polyphony and simplification of complex controller use possible for the fully-featured instruments in live performance, but that's a ways off.

    Tom

  3. #3

    Re: Chris Hein Horns (vs Garritan JABB) - Fully polyphonic?

    Hi,

    I don't know the answer to the Chris Hein inquiry but here's my take for other content within your post.

    The fact that JABB is Monophonic is a benefit and that it really forces you in to writing ensemble parts the way they are as a Pro-Arranger. Each part can articulate a tad different from the other sectional part. This gives the section a unique sound and not a repetetive block sound in velocity and articulation. Certainly it is more work for the midi arranger but in my view it delivers a more realistic outcome.


    Alan Russell
    Please Visit My New & Revised Official Website Below

    http://AlanRussell-Music.com

  4. #4

    Re: Chris Hein Horns (vs Garritan JABB) - Fully polyphonic?

    i wish there was a script for kontakt that would automatically split the notes in a chord and send each voice to a different instrument for realtime polycontrol of a hornsection.
    Would this be possible?

    Hans

  5. #5

    Re: Chris Hein Horns (vs Garritan JABB) - Fully polyphonic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Scheffler
    i wish there was a script for kontakt that would automatically split the notes in a chord and send each voice to a different instrument for realtime polycontrol of a hornsection.
    Would this be possible?

    Hans
    Hi Hans,
    unfortunately scripts in K2 are always tied to a specific instrument so it's not possible to have a script receive notes and send them to different instruments. There's a possibility this will change with Kontakt 2.1.

    Nils

  6. #6

    Re: Chris Hein Horns (vs Garritan JABB) - Fully polyphonic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch that hurts
    Question: Does Chris Hein Horns have the same monophonic limitation?
    Chris Hein-Horns is completly polyphonic.

    I bought JABB recently and like it very much together with my Horns.
    When opening JABB instruments in kontakt, you can make them polyphonic
    by setting the voices-groups to off in the source page.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Scheffler
    i wish there was a script for kontakt that would automatically split the notes in a chord and send each voice to a different instrument for realtime polycontrol of a hornsection.
    Would this be possible?
    Thats possible with kontakt scripting.
    Not with different instruments, but with different keygroups.
    So, it needs special designed instruments for that function.

    Chris Hein
    Chris Hein - Horns / Chris Hein - Guitars / Chris Hein - Bass
    http://www.chrishein.net

  7. #7

    Re: Chris Hein Horns (vs Garritan JABB) - Fully polyphonic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Hein
    Chris Hein-Horns is completly polyphonic.

    I bought JABB recently and like it very much together with my Horns.
    When opening JABB instruments in kontakt, you can make them polyphonic
    by setting the voices-groups to off in the source page.
    Thanks Chris. Just to clarify, when you do this do you still sacrifice some of the advanced programming as Tom said?

  8. #8

    Re: Chris Hein Horns (vs Garritan JABB) - Fully polyphonic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Russell
    Hi,

    I don't know the answer to the Chris Hein inquiry but here's my take for other content within your post.

    The fact that JABB is Monophonic is a benefit and that it really forces you in to writing ensemble parts the way they are as a Pro-Arranger. Each part can articulate a tad different from the other sectional part. This gives the section a unique sound and not a repetetive block sound in velocity and articulation. Certainly it is more work for the midi arranger but in my view it delivers a more realistic outcome.
    I'm not denying any of that from an arranging point of view, but maybe you missed the point of my post - that I need something for live use.

  9. #9

    Re: Chris Hein Horns (vs Garritan JABB) - Fully polyphonic?

    Ouch, that was my primary disappointment with JABB as well, i was hoping they would work live, but even playing poly witht he lite horns - they sound best in a fully controlled environment, any time you go polyphonic you lose the individual control, there is no way around it (except I suppose it would be possible to script something that would allow only the top note of a chord to respond to the controller data, but if you look at a midi file of live perfornace, I'll bet your accuracy in hitting a chord is not going to be clean enough to let the script perform its task once per chord - any slop at all, even a small amount, and you'll be getting some very un-authentic sounding results (multiple attacks, sloppy slurs with odd enveloping, etc. as the script tries to guess your intentions - or is delyed enough for the fingers to catch up, but then the attack/slur is late as well - you can't beat Mother Nature.)
    Dasher
    -------
    It's all about the music - really. I keep telling myself that...

  10. #10

    Re: Chris Hein Horns (vs Garritan JABB) - Fully polyphonic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch that hurts
    Thanks Chris. Just to clarify, when you do this do you still sacrifice some of the advanced programming as Tom said?
    The complete programming is based on multi-samples.
    Air Flow, Vibrato, Growl, Sax-Keys, Spit, Top-Kicks, Shakes, etc.
    everything is just done by blending samples.
    Even these controller-samples have up to 10 velocities.
    Just the growl-effect on the trumpet consists of 102 different samples.
    There are no synthetic controllers controllers in Chris Hein-Horns.

    I found no reason to do anything monophonic.
    You know what you play, so you can avoid overlapping notes if that is the reason.

    Chris Hein
    Chris Hein - Horns / Chris Hein - Guitars / Chris Hein - Bass
    http://www.chrishein.net

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