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Topic: symphony no. 5 (scherzo and finale)

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  1. #1
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    symphony no. 5 (scherzo and finale)

    here follows the remainder of the symphony posted earlier

    scherzo http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=782052&T=4811
    finale http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=783037&T=1505

    pls note for anyone who has already listened to this that I have separated the last two movements and rerecorded the 2nd to bring out the pizzicato more.
    Last edited by dko22; 04-16-2006 at 06:26 PM. Reason: new version upload

  2. #2

    Re: symphony no. 5 (scherzo and finale)

    I've listened through the fully symphony, and I must say -- a most fulfilling and bountiful musical repast, with much to ponder!

    (I would note that I think the rendering of the scherzo seemed to give you some difficulty in terms of clarity -- a minor technical issue, perhaps, of sound treatment.)

    The third movement especially caught my interest. Certain areas of the string writing are practically nectareous -- tart, but quenching and satisfying. And the unraveling of it was really quite well done.

    Bravo!

    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .

  3. #3
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    Re: symphony no. 5 (scherzo and finale)

    David --thank you very much for your patience in getting the whole way through the work!
    The rendering of the scherzo I would say is in fact a major technical issue! It is scored as pizzicato but a) I don't know whether a section can actually play pizz. at that speed or whether it really should be some sort of spic. (when doing this it never occured to me that a real orchestra would ever play it so the question was academic) and b) the GPO pizz sounds rather in the background which isn't quite the effect I wanted. Any suggestions for improvement would be warmly welcomed!

  4. #4

    Re: symphony no. 5 (scherzo and finale)

    This was nice work!

    ... but barely audible on my system headphones!...even with full volume.

    Yet, what I could hear sounded very well constructed and imaginative.


    A great deal of effort was involved....! A pity if technicalities distract listeners to hear.



    well done!

    ~jeff

  5. #5

    Re: symphony no. 5 (scherzo and finale)

    Quote Originally Posted by dko22
    David --thank you very much for your patience in getting the whole way through the work!
    The rendering of the scherzo I would say is in fact a major technical issue! It is scored as pizzicato but a) I don't know whether a section can actually play pizz. at that speed or whether it really should be some sort of spic. (when doing this it never occured to me that a real orchestra would ever play it so the question was academic) and b) the GPO pizz sounds rather in the background which isn't quite the effect I wanted. Any suggestions for improvement would be warmly welcomed!
    The rendering might be improved with less reverberation; or at least by cutting the predelay way back (too long on the predelay or equivalent setting in a reverb treatment, and you cloud the attacks of the notes).

    Speaking orchestratively, I might think the extensive, fast pizzicato writing in this would result in a lot of busted nails, tired fingers, and disgruntled string players -- but it's probably playable if they don't lose their, er, pluck... lol.

    But getting an entire string section to play together in pizzicato at that speed, that long? That's a whole 'nother matter.

    My best,

    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .

  6. #6
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    Re: symphony no. 5 (scherzo and finale)

    Quote Originally Posted by jsp2
    This was nice work!

    ... but barely audible on my system headphones!...even with full volume.

    Yet, what I could hear sounded very well constructed and imaginative.


    A great deal of effort was involved....! A pity if technicalities distract listeners to hear.



    well done!

    ~jeff
    sorry you had problems, Jeff. The volume on the acid planet stream is perhaps slightly lower than the original but not significantly so, so I'm at a loss why you should have had such difficulty.

    The pizzicato seems to have a slightly recessed sound with GPO which makes the volume seem lower at the beginning. I could put length to near 0 and brightness to near 100 which certainly makes a difference but of course sounds unbearable with arco. The reverb though, David, is not the problem here I think as it sounds only a little different with none at all. Those of you who get a different result with pizz. should let me in on their secret --perhaps I can find an example somewhere on the forum!

  7. #7

    Re: symphony no. 5 (scherzo and finale)

    No clue, D. --- I was guessing at the reverb, because I had a somewhat similar problem, and it was due to that...

    I do note others have sometimes had difficulty with pizzicato strings.

    Seems like we're all continually learning, though, so you're surely not alone with it! Somebody should know...

    Best,

    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .

  8. #8
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    Re: symphony no. 5 (scherzo and finale)

    dko22,
    I just listened to the three movements of your 5th Symphony. Very impressive. David commented it has its roots in Romanticism. I agree but also hear a strong, pre-serial Scheonberg. Excellent work.
    Bill
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  9. #9

    Re: symphony no. 5 (scherzo and finale)

    dko22

    I am hearing it for the second time right now and very much enjoy listening to your work (and will repeat listening for sure). I do not hear it as any sort of "... ism" but as a musical language that is your own - without avoiding elements that could sound familiar by all means ... which seems to be a very natural approach.

    I am impressed with your agogical skills with Overture and can not imagine how you do it. I would be very interested to learn this. Did you get my mail?

    Some details ... that do not decrease the musical content:
    I think most of the pizz is on the edge but playable ... sometimes it would be necessary to use two plucking fingers alternating which would be working for a short sequence, e. g. three notes in a row.

    These are the runs that would be definetely too fast: Violins 1:45, 4:24 and 5:12, Violas 5:19. There may be more in the middle voices that I did not get.

    There are some minor passages where the strings sound more synthy than they have to (typically "Vorhalt" notes on the downbeat like the basses at 13:38 or the violins at 15:38). I guess this could be cured easily by adding some curves on the vibrato and detune controls cc22 - cc23.

    Best regards and thank you for sharing this,
    Hannes

  10. #10
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    Re: symphony no. 5 (scherzo and finale)

    Bill -interesting you pick on Schoenberg (Verklaerte Nacht possibly?) as I'd never though of being much influenced by him. I love trying to spot influences in others myself and usually seem to get it wrong. Or perhaps we don't always know what influences us at a subconscious level. The idea here was really that the work should try to generate some of the energy of other 5th's like Beethoven and Nielsen and an other one which I'm wondering if anyone will know?

    Hannes --first of all I did get your message and I wrote something on 23/3 --didn't you get it? Will resend now. Or perhaps you wrote something later somewhere which I didn't pick up? I appreciate your comments about the technical side of the pizz which I was sure would be near impossible in places. At least i know, in the unlikely event of this being performed by real flesh and blood musicians what i will need to change. And i'll have a look at the synthy passages as well you mentioned. I have to admit that I have used only the string orchestra combo here so it is far from being a GPO demo piece --there are quite a number of others who have mastered the technical side much better than me.

    I have now posted a crisper version of the scherzo at
    http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=782052&T=2840
    I think this is somewhat better anyway -will see if others agree. Thanks to all for your help and comments to date.

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