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Topic: Brown buggers up yet another Budget

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  1. #1
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    Brown buggers up yet another Budget

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    Don't say I didn't warn you.

    Cameron moves up 4 notches on the Richter Scale with Budget reply. Way to go Cameron.


  2. #2

    Re: Brown buggers up yet another Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulR
    Don't say I didn't warn you.

    Cameron moves up 4 notches on the Richter Scale with Budget reply. Way to go Cameron.

    Spartacus!

    Don't get me started on the economic farce that is the Sherriff of Westminster, Gordon Brown.

    Cameron did ok, but i don't think he's a modern day Robin Hood just yet.





    Alex.

  3. #3

    Re: Brown buggers up yet another Budget

    And is there any substance to your objection? Or just empty rhetoric like Cameron himself. "Brown = Labour = Therefore Must Be Bad By Definition yada yada . . . tax-and-spend, tax-and-spend, yada yada . . . "

  4. #4

    Re: Brown buggers up yet another Budget

    Some excerpts from the background to the budget:

    - 2% inflation in 2005-6 - in line with the Treasury's target.

    - Long term interest rates at lowest for 40 years at 4%.

    - National income per head risen from seventh in the G7 in 1997 to second (behind the US).


    Yeah, sure is a bummer those irresponsible Labour governments.

  5. #5
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    Re: Brown buggers up yet another Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch that hurts
    Some excerpts from the background to the budget:

    - 2% inflation in 2005-6 - in line with the Treasury's target.

    - Long term interest rates at lowest for 40 years at 4%.

    - National income per head risen from seventh in the G7 in 1997 to second (behind the US).


    Yeah, sure is a bummer those irresponsible Labour governments.
    You're having laugh right?

    Inflation? That's a rubbish measurement under Labour. It's tripe. Check your gas bills. Check your council tax bills etc etc etc. WTF has that got to do with inflation? Inflation just went up to 2% because of the increase cost of video games. Hellllooo? Check any of your fuel bills under Labour - start with petrol.

    Long term interest rates? European long term rates makes the British ones look high. In fact, the mistake most people in this place automatically make is to compare interest rates today - with interest rates on the early nineties. That, I agree was the biggest fiasco in 20th century British political financial history - based on a bollocks experiment involving France and Germany. Always going to be doomed - especially when you have moron like Major overseeing the deal from Maastricht. Our rates are too high now - never mind the last 9 years.

    G7 figures? You'd believe anything these guys'll tell you right? Check the boss of Capita this morning - and ask him if you get a chance.

    I like what Wolfe of the Financial Times said in describing Brown's budget speech - it was like a commissar delivery on the opening of a new tractor factory.

    I can't wait for Brown to become leader - tomorrow if possible would be good for me.

  6. #6

    Re: Brown buggers up yet another Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulR
    You're having laugh right?

    Inflation? That's a rubbish measurement under Labour. It's tripe. Check your gas bills. Check your council tax bills etc etc etc. WTF has that got to do with inflation? Inflation just went up to 2% because of the increase cost of video games. Hellllooo? Check any of your fuel bills under Labour - start with petrol.
    No, THAT'S a rubbish measurement. In fact it's not a measurement at all - you're making a judgment about inflation as a whole by referring anecdotally to specific, individual costs. If economists tried to do that they'd be sacked. The whole point of inflation is that it measures the economy as a whole. There will ALWAYS be certain things within that economy that rise by more than inflation, and some that rise by less, or even fall. That doesn't mean anything.

    The rises in fuel bills certainly worry me. It was of course good old Mrs. T who set in train the worship of privatising everything that, we were assured, would result in lower costs to the consumer. Haha. Unfortunately New Labour have allowed their adoration of the free market to guide them the same way. And now we're paying for it. But fuel bills have risen exactly as the provision of utility services has moved to the right. The solution to that is not going to be provided by anyone like the tories standing even further to the right.

    Long term interest rates? European long term rates makes the British ones look high. In fact, the mistake most people in this place automatically make is to compare interest rates today - with interest rates on the early nineties. That, I agree was the biggest fiasco in 20th century British political financial history - based on a bollocks experiment involving France and Germany. Always going to be doomed - especially when you have moron like Major overseeing the deal from Maastricht. Our rates are too high now - never mind the last 9 years.
    Our rates are the lowest they've been for 40 years. That INCLUDES the eighteen year period of uninterrupted tory rule. Yes, British rates have ALWAYS been high compared to European ones, largely as a result of a different culture regarding house ownership. But what's that got to do with which party is in power? The only relevant issue is comparing the way different British governments have governed Britain - not suddenly expecting one of them to perform miracles and transform Britain into a completely different country.

    I like what Wolfe of the Financial Times said in describing Brown's budget speech - it was like a commissar delivery on the opening of a new tractor factory.
    As I thought - still no substance. You're so utterly decided in advance that Labour = Bad By Definition that you don't even care.

    Personally I thought the green proposals, particularly regarding variable road tax according to the nature of the vehicle, were a great step in the right direction, though they didn't go nearly far enough, given the looming crisis of global warming. And as a teacher, I see the extra resources for education as a great step forward, especially as they're targeted to specific aims (extra science classes etc) rather than just giving away money for the hell of it.

    But I don't suppose you noticed any of that. "Hummph hummph hummph, new tractor factory, ha ha - gosh, upstart Labour boys think they can govern the country, just not cricket is it? Hummph hummph hummph..."

  7. #7

    Re: Brown buggers up yet another Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch that hurts
    No, THAT'S a rubbish measurement. In fact it's not a measurement at all - you're making a judgment about inflation as a whole by referring anecdotally to specific, individual costs. If economists tried to do that they'd be sacked. The whole point of inflation is that it measures the economy as a whole. There will ALWAYS be certain things within that economy that rise by more than inflation, and some that rise by less, or even fall. That doesn't mean anything.

    The rises in fuel bills certainly worry me. It was of course good old Mrs. T who set in train the worship of privatising everything that, we were assured, would result in lower costs to the consumer. Haha. Unfortunately New Labour have allowed their adoration of the free market to guide them the same way. And now we're paying for it. But fuel bills have risen exactly as the provision of utility services has moved to the right. The solution to that is not going to be provided by anyone like the tories standing even further to the right.



    Our rates are the lowest they've been for 40 years. That INCLUDES the eighteen year period of uninterrupted tory rule. Yes, British rates have ALWAYS been high compared to European ones, largely as a result of a different culture regarding house ownership. But what's that got to do with which party is in power? The only relevant issue is comparing the way different British governments have governed Britain - not suddenly expecting one of them to perform miracles and transform Britain into a completely different country.



    As I thought - still no substance. You're so utterly decided in advance that Labour = Bad By Definition that you don't even care.

    Personally I thought the green proposals, particularly regarding variable road tax according to the nature of the vehicle, were a great step in the right direction, though they didn't go nearly far enough, given the looming crisis of global warming. And as a teacher, I see the extra resources for education as a great step forward, especially as they're targeted to specific aims (extra science classes etc) rather than just giving away money for the hell of it.

    But I don't suppose you noticed any of that. "Hummph hummph hummph, new tractor factory, ha ha - gosh, upstart Labour boys think they can govern the country, just not cricket is it? Hummph hummph hummph..."
    Even if all of this were true, which it isn't (IMHO), the fact that Blair and his cronies have lied to, ignored, and been belligerently contemptuous towards the people gives both Paul and I ample proof that this labour government have been and continue to be poitical fundamantalists. That's a dangerous precedent to set in any system of governance. You might like 'em, and vote for them, and of course that's your choice, but the inherent dishonesty and lack of regard for repercussion, either in effect on the citizenry, or the reputation of the country, is a stain on the system we allegedly call democratic. I have friends who run businesses in Britain, including one who is a manufacturer, and times have never been tougher. The stealth taxes, charges and fees, carefully labelled as to be 'excluded' from tables of measurement, are crippling the country, and importantly, the future of the country. And you don't seriously think those donations for peerage are above board, or the fact that Clarke went for the LB treasurer simply because he did something wrong? Come on man, open your eyes. This is a corrupt government who are arrogant enough to set their own rules for any assessment of their activities.

    Tory's sleaze? .
    Liberal Democrats sleaze? , same gender included.
    Labour Sleaze? Financial, and a clear case of immorality stemming from a breathtaking arrogance. The war in Iraq is an example. Bush said recently that no leader likes to go to war. It's complete crap. Blair's had seven of them in a desperate lunge for a place in history.

    Just for information, it was general accepted practise that an incoming government would follow the economic plan and cycle of the previous government, then start their own. The money wasted in huge amounts at the start of the new labour empirical journey was available as a result of the previous tory economic plan, as tough as it felt at the time, Prudence was a reality, and that created a surplus that Brown has eagerly frittered away.
    But that wasn't enough.
    He went after pensions, and now, millions will have to rely on the pittance from the state, because your chancellor stole it in breathtaking amounts with little or no thought of the consequences.

    Brown has been a distaster for Britain, with the largest deficit ever, when you add all the stuff he says he doesn't have to include.

    And what about David Kelly? The method of assinating his character was shameful to watch, and not indicative of any level of decency at all.

    The corruption and spin have been breathtaking in their departure from the truth, at ANY level.

    Alex.

  8. #8
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    Re: Brown buggers up yet another Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch that hurts
    No, THAT'S a rubbish measurement. In fact it's not a measurement at all - you're making a judgment about inflation as a whole by referring anecdotally to specific, individual costs. If economists tried to do that they'd be sacked. The whole point of inflation is that it measures the economy as a whole. There will ALWAYS be certain things within that economy that rise by more than inflation, and some that rise by less, or even fall. That doesn't mean anything.

    The rises in fuel bills certainly worry me. It was of course good old Mrs. T who set in train the worship of privatising everything that, we were assured, would result in lower costs to the consumer. Haha. Unfortunately New Labour have allowed their adoration of the free market to guide them the same way. And now we're paying for it. But fuel bills have risen exactly as the provision of utility services has moved to the right. The solution to that is not going to be provided by anyone like the tories standing even further to the right.
    Look - don't you get it - inflation means nothing in the world of REALITY! We're not talking about economists - we're talking about who Brown is talking to - the bloody electorate. Economist measurements mean fk all to them - means nothing. It's Brown bullsh!t bluster AND - even C4 and even the BBC understand that now. And that's saying something. I told you 12 months ago - repeat 12 months ago Brown had got his GDP forecasts wrong - but you you knew best right? And you wouldn't have it - because you understand finance right? Not. The guy is MILES out. The biggest joke in this budget is the amount money he's allocated to education. Even if he could prove it - which he can't - whoTF wants that going on education in this country today? You can throw as much money at pork as you like - it still ends up as pork. The private sector think it's a lie and joke and they're probably right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch that hurts
    Our rates are the lowest they've been for 40 years. That INCLUDES the eighteen year period of uninterrupted tory rule. Yes, British rates have ALWAYS been high compared to European ones, largely as a result of a different culture regarding house ownership. But what's that got to do with which party is in power? The only relevant issue is comparing the way different British governments have governed Britain - not suddenly expecting one of them to perform miracles and transform Britain into a completely different country.
    Christ - they've had 9 years.

    Oh - look, interest rates don't mean anything unless they're compared to others to whom you are doing business with. If our rates are at 10% and every other Euro nation and America and Japan is say 14% -does that make our rates low? Of course it does!
    They held the rates here far too high even at 5 and 6% when Europe was at 3%. That makes 5% high when you're talking about doing business.
    The only real money on the markets for instance that you could make in an underperforming indices compared against just about the rest of the world under Labour for 5 years - was through dividends. Dividends on a lot of FTSE100 companies are paid in US dollars - ergo - money made through currency exchange rates. Go figure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch that hurts
    Personally I thought the green proposals, particularly regarding variable road tax according to the nature of the vehicle, were a great step in the right direction, though they didn't go nearly far enough, given the looming crisis of global warming. And as a teacher, I see the extra resources for education as a great step forward, especially as they're targeted to specific aims (extra science classes etc) rather than just giving away money for the hell of it.
    A great step in the right direction? What?? 40 quid.

    Or - half a tank of petrol. Oh my goodness me - I can see SUV owners flocking to the car sales. Jesus H Christ! Not gonna happen is it?

    Where you go wrong is you make assumptions and you don't understand facts - which is worrying in the light of you being a teacher - now regarded as almost the lowest form of life in the professional classes in this country today btw. You don't understand finance - before I retired, I used lecture on it. You assume dogma - I am not a Tory in the sense that you blindly back Labour. I would vote Labour IF I thought they were any good. You would never vote Tory even if they were brilliant. None of them are ever going to be brilliant - but you need to start looking at this government with a clear head.

  9. #9
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    Re: Brown buggers up yet another Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermitage59
    Even if all of this were true, which it isn't (IMHO), the fact that Blair and his cronies have lied to, ignored, and been belligerently contemptuous towards the people gives both Paul and I ample proof that this labour government have been and continue to be political fundamentalists. That's a dangerous precedent to set in any system of governance. You might like 'em, and vote for them, and of course that's your choice, but the inherent dishonesty and lack of regard for repercussion, either in effect on the citizenry, or the reputation of the country, is a stain on the system we allegedly call democratic.
    Had that been a Tory government - half of them would have resigned by now. This government are an embarrassment. They can't even spell resignation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hermitage59
    I have friends who run businesses in Britain, including one who is a manufacturer, and times have never been tougher. The stealth taxes, charges and fees, carefully labeled as to be 'excluded' from tables of measurement, are crippling the country, and importantly, the future of the country.
    It's like I said before - the electorate have always been 1 or 2 election results behind. They only see it from how much their mortgage rate is - and that's understandable in so many ways. Especially when you have to concede that 95% of any given population spend all their time drinking at the fk-up bar.
    Taxation is the highest it's ever been at approx 38.5% - and that's only if you're a basic rate tax payer of course. But that's par for Labour. Ouch probably wasn't even alive between 1974 and 1979. If he was - I doubt if he remembers it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermitage59
    And you don't seriously think those donations for peerage are above board, or the fact that Clarke went for the LB treasurer simply because he did something wrong? Come on man, open your eyes. This is a corrupt government who are arrogant enough to set their own rules for any assessment of their activities.
    He's in big trouble over this one now. Check out Capita. Labour are now forced to sell off parts of the business - hahaha! Of course - everyone has always bought peerages - but the way Labour filled the Lords from day one in 97 was an eye-opener for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermitage59
    And what about David Kelly? The method of assinating his character was shameful to watch, and not indicative of any level of decency at all.Alex.
    I never thought there were enough questions asked about that. NO blood found under the body by the paramedics - helloo?

  10. #10

    Re: Brown buggers up yet another Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermitage59
    Even if all of this were true, which it isn't (IMHO), the fact that Blair and his cronies have lied to, ignored, and been belligerently contemptuous towards the people gives both Paul and I ample proof that this labour government have been and continue to be poitical fundamantalists. That's a dangerous precedent to set in any system of governance. You might like 'em, and vote for them, and of course that's your choice, but the inherent dishonesty and lack of regard for repercussion, either in effect on the citizenry, or the reputation of the country, is a stain on the system we allegedly call democratic.
    Alex, just to clarify my own position: I actually DIDN'T vote Labour last election, and don't plan to at the next one, for exactly this reason. IMO, Blair's behaviour over Iraq is absolutely, totally unforgivable in any political leader. He should have been chucked long ago, regardless of any other factors.

    Having said that, I have to say that I think in most other respects, his government have done a very good job. Most importantly, they've managed for the first time to implement aspects of a traditional Labour program (Minimum Wage; now more money for education etc.) while still managing the economy responsibly. OK, you may think they HAVEN'T managed it responsibly, but stand back for a minute and compare them to the Callahan or Wilson governments.

    You have to remember that, however "New" Labour they may be, they are still Labour. As such, they will have certain priorities to fulfill that will tend to benefit the worst off and not benefit the richest. That's just the nature of a leftist government I'm afraid, even a nominally leftist or centre-centre-centre-just-one-millimetre-to-the-left one like this. But that's what the British people voted for, and they made the collective decision that they'd rather have that than far-right Thatcherite free marketeering.

    It doesn't then make any sense to condemn this government by the benchmarks of Thatcherism. Oh no, there have been stealth taxes! Well guess what, it's a LABOUR government, that has a program of public works to fullfil in health, education, etc, and needs money to fullfil it. Its seems more realistic to me to compare how they have done this with previous Labour administrations, and they've managed to do this with far greater economic responsibility, keeping a greater proportion of the centre-right on side.

    It just peeves me that people like Paul can't admit any of this. They're so stuck in the conviction that the Thatcherite way of governing the country is the only possible valid one, that they judge everything by that. In fact he doesn't even judge - he just indulges in empty rhetoric. How many actual policy points of Brown's budget has he raised here, and explained his objection to? He's not interested because he's already decided that a Labour government can't possibly be credible.

    It infuriates people like Paul that most of the rest of the British population aren't that narrow minded, and are willing to pay a certain amount of tax to have a better society.

    But for the record, I voted Lib Dem last time and will again next time. Labour have burnt their bridges over Iraq for me. However I'd raise an important point here - if you object to them over Iraq, you must object even more to the tories. Because it's Tory support that made the issue easy for Blair - he got far more flak from his own party than from the so-called "opposition".

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