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Topic: Realistic?

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  1. #1
    Moderator/Developer Brian2112's Avatar
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    Realistic?

    I am curious about something…
    When I was younger, before we had all these very realistic sample libraries, I used synths to emulate real instruments (Strings etc.). I composed with drum machines, hardware sequencers and such, but whatever I came up with was mostly an idea meant to be played by a rock band or some sort of ensemble, saving only some of the synth pad tracks for the final recordings.
    Today, I find myself with a wealth of realistic instruments at my disposal (full orchestras, choirs, pianos, guitars, and even ethnic instruments). So now that I have all this realism, I find myself having endless fun doing unrealistic things.
    My question is, have any of you ever had reason to do something similar to the following?

    1 Using 2 or more piano libraries in a track (not for mixing reasons but for musical ones)
    2 Using unconventional section sizes
    3 Using unconventional phrase lengths (for example, a flute motif that does not allow for the player to breath – and on purpose)

    Now obviously, if the piece is meant to be performed by an ensemble then one would not do these things (normally, although a red faced flute player passing out is sometimes a desired effect ). But for the sake of just a recording or experimenting, do any of you find that any of your music calls for this type of un-realistic approach?
    Samples now allow us to do unrealistic things with realistic sounds and I’m having a blast. And you?

    ...2112
    "So what if some parts of life are a crap shoot? Get out there and shoot the crap." -- Neil Peart
    Hint:1.6180339887498948482 Φ

  2. #2
    Senior Member Steve_Karl's Avatar
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    Re: Realistic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian2112
    I am curious about something…
    When I was younger, before we had all these very realistic sample libraries, I used synths to emulate real instruments (Strings etc.). I composed with drum machines, hardware sequencers and such, but whatever I came up with was mostly an idea meant to be played by a rock band or some sort of ensemble, saving only some of the synth pad tracks for the final recordings.
    Today, I find myself with a wealth of realistic instruments at my disposal (full orchestras, choirs, pianos, guitars, and even ethnic instruments). So now that I have all this realism, I find myself having endless fun doing unrealistic things.
    My question is, have any of you ever had reason to do something similar to the following?

    1 Using 2 or more piano libraries in a track (not for mixing reasons but for musical ones)
    2 Using unconventional section sizes
    3 Using unconventional phrase lengths (for example, a flute motif that does not allow for the player to breath – and on purpose)

    Now obviously, if the piece is meant to be performed by an ensemble then one would not do these things (normally, although a red faced flute player passing out is sometimes a desired effect ). But for the sake of just a recording or experimenting, do any of you find that any of your music calls for this type of un-realistic approach?
    Samples now allow us to do unrealistic things with realistic sounds and I’m having a blast. And you?

    ...2112
    From the back to the front:
    "Calls for" , in my opinion, is a totally subjective perception, i.e. "I" decide what it calls for.
    I don't have any problem with thinking of breaths, and I don't see them as detracting from my vision of the work.
    ( I just did a 5 minute oboe solo last night. )
    Unconventional section sizes, yes, almost always. I like big string sections.
    I've never had the desire to use 2 piano sounds in the same piece.
    I just use what feels right for the piece.
    Now if I found that I was using piano in multiple areas of a piece and they called for a different feeling then I'd surely try it and use what works, for me, to get the job done.

  3. #3

    Re: Realistic?

    I think that basically what you mean is that even with the best sample stuff ever we always have to use some tricks to make a real sounding mock up.
    I have sometimes this sensation, but if I do something like doubling strings is for reaching a true real sound (at least for me ). That is the magic of mock up, it is an art itself, so you can own the best sample libraries but doing synthy sounding themes...

    I love midi mock up...
    Eduardo Tarilonte |Sample Library Developer
    SampleLibraries |MyWeb

  4. #4

    Re: Realistic?

    I've tried some of the things you suggest. What I find interesting right now is to take an instrumental or vocal sample and mangle it through various processes. Like taking a piano sample, stretching it through granular synthesis, running it through a ring modulator, vocording it, etc. All I've done is play with this, I don't have any recorded demos I could share, but if I ever come up with something interesting, I'll share it.
    Dan Powers
    www.danielpowers.info

    "It's easier to be a composer than it is to compose."
    --Ray Luke (1928-2010)

  5. #5

    Talking Re: Realistic?

    Yep, I find myself with sooo many posibilities that sometimes I don't even know where to start. For voicings I'll play a guitar solo and then try and perform that with a violin or oboe... There's is no "wrong" way. Do what works for you. There will always be someone who thinks whatever I write is garbage no matter what I do with it! So thinking outside of the box is what has got us here in the first place! The fact that you're working on something that 6-7 years ago was only a deam is really cool.
    So I wonder if windows Vista will have a sort of "itunes" orchestral/viocing/guitar/drums/etc. samples included?? So everyone can have a taste of what can be done! Just have fun with it!
    Later

  6. #6
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Realistic?

    To me, if it's being done with samplers or synths, it's electronic music. And if you're stuck in realism (outside strictly commercial concerns), then you're missing the point.

  7. #7

    Re: Realistic?

    I just did some "trailer music" for my son. The singers died from asphixiation. I used a stage full of cello players and a few basses with no violins or violas. The drummers would need ladders to hit my stretched-low drums. I reversed and pitched down a whip sound - I guess the conductor whirled his giant whip backwards, keeping the orchestra in line. Then the three explosions at the end killed everybody in the concert hall - except the bass clarinetist, who played some lingering multiphonic effects.

    Well, it's realistic on my planet!

    -JF

  8. #8
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Realistic?

    I think it's time computer developers started working on a computer program that dispenses realistic gin. The demand for orchestral realism would subside quickly.

  9. #9
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    Re: Realistic?

    I love conversations about realism and samples - AND real orchestras too.

    Someone, when they get the time and inclination should actually define what musical/sound realism is.

  10. #10

    Re: Realistic?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulR
    I love conversations about realism and samples - AND real orchestras too.

    Someone, when they get the time and inclination should actually define what musical/sound realism is.
    Certainly, Spartacus.


    It's Beethoven.


    Orchestration, ability, and Tone, might have something to do with it as well.

    Oh yes, And sample libraries have as much relevance as orchestral instruments, so the live versus 'sampled' argument is a non starter.
    They're all instruments. It's only how well we 'play' them that determines an end criteria. Once again this comparison rears it's head, and the reality is, it's the user who has the responsibility to turn out good work. The sample instruments are certainly good enough and 'valid'.


    Regards,

    Alex.

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