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Topic: Trumpet sound....not like the demos!

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  1. #1

    Trumpet sound....not like the demos!

    Ok, I'm a horn player of some 25 years (trombone) I couldn't believe the trumpet sound when I heard the demos, in particular, the higher range. Very realistic. So, I bought JABB and loaded in the trumpet and was to say the least deflated. The sound was less than convincing.

    Now I realize there is engineering involved and I'm sure a great deal of time was put into the demos, but i am not new to sample libraries and sequencers and just can't see the sounds I'm hearing as the same sounds in the demos.

    Now, I'm not bashing, I simply want that sound for my productions. So, please, tell me how to get it. Am I missing something. I am more than happy to be wrong

    Thanks for any input.

  2. #2

    Re: Trumpet sound....not like the demos!

    A few things:

    1.) Reverb -- make sure there's some reverb on your tracks--dry samples tend to sound weak and exposed.

    2.) MOD Wheel dynamics - Make sure you're riding that MOD wheel (cc1) nonstop while you're playing--mine never stops moving. As a brass player, try to simulate your breath flow with the mod wheel -- as you play, you are constantly performing swells, portatos, adjusting your dynamics for the flow of the phrase, attacking some notes hard and then pulling back, putting a little crescendo towards the end of a long note, etc. All the things you do with your breath should be considered when recording the mod wheel dynamics

    3.) Vibrato intensity / Vibrato Speed - Don't just set-and-forget -- adjust the vibrato as you play (or record it in a second take). Again, think about how you phrase vibrato on your trombone -- probably you delay it for a moment, and then gradually increase its speed. If you leave the vibrato at one level/speed it will sound very mechanical, but it can be quite lifelike if you control it tastefully.

    4.) Pedal (cc64) - Play or write in pedal marks where you would slur. Any tongued note should be pedal up, any slurred note should be pedal down. Again, imagine playing the line on your trombone and simulate that (i.e. a long slurred phrase, you would play the FIRST note pedal up, and then press and hold the pedal before the SECOND note -- because you would tongue the first note and slur the rest). This is a bit different than on the trombone, since you're usually tonguing lightly even during slurs to avoid glissing all over the place, but I'm sure you know what I mean.

    5.) The sweeteners: Release samples (cc16?) will help your high trumpet notes to release in a realistic way; breath flow and a touch of flutter tongue can add to the samples' grit when used judiciously. Also, setting your Var1 and Var2 (not too high) can give a little humanity to the parts, by automatically fluctuating intonation and timbre slightly).

    chris.

  3. #3

    Re: Trumpet sound....not like the demos!

    JABB is one of the fastest and easiest out there to get a realistic horn sound - did you read the manual? I'm an former slide player, too, BTW. Have you ever recorded a horn section? mixed it? Being a player and being able to make a cohesive, convicing sound are two different skills.

    Be more specific - what are you doing when laying down tracks? What kind of controller are you using? Are you able to get a full range of MIDI values out of them? All of that stuff matters long before you get to the first compressor, mic model, convolution or summing buss...
    Houston Haynes - Titan Line Music

  4. #4

    Re: Trumpet sound....not like the demos!

    Thanks for the replies.

    Yes, I have read the manual, and yes, I realized there were a couple of things I did not try. I use the slur function appropriately. I will try the breath for sure and I itended to use the release options as well. I will try to incorporate more of the controllers to try to help. It's the sonic quality I was referring to. I have Kick ~~~ Brass and "out of the box" the trumpet sound was considerably less "synthy" but I was not completely happy with the upper range. I will work on it tonight some more and let you know how it evloves. I am certainly not unrealistic thinking that there is no work involved in making it sing. I own GPO aand I know the "put it together with some thought and effort" mind set that Garritan has. (Not a bad thing)

    By the way. I am doing horn section lines (mostly unisons/octaves) for Pop/R&B productions. It's not solo work. So the vibrato is not 'as' useful. Certainly in the mix the trumpet is fine, but the realism and timbre in the demos is far better than what I am hearing in my arrangements.

    Another note - again, hoping to sort this out tonight - when I put the 5 trumpets together and play them in unison it sounds like one trumpet with a little phasing. I tried de-tuning but that was less than desirable, and panning had little effect on the separation of the individual instruments. And yes, I tried a little VARI but didn't do the job. Now, if they were sampled, and not synthesized, should they not phase when put together? Each of the trumpets listed should sound different enough to layer them and get a big section sound even in unison.

    Again, I am more than happy to be told I missed something and I have me head up my a**! I like the Garritan stuff and really want to make the library sing.

    Thanks.

  5. #5

    Re: Trumpet sound....not like the demos!

    Quote Originally Posted by mattdean
    By the way. I am doing horn section lines (mostly unisons/octaves) for Pop/R&B productions. It's not solo work. So the vibrato is not 'as' useful. Certainly in the mix the trumpet is fine, but the realism and timbre in the demos is far better than what I am hearing in my arrangements.
    A short delay or chorus will also thicken the sound if you have access to those effects and is ideal for the genre.

    R

  6. #6

    Re: Trumpet sound....not like the demos!

    Matt has contacted me privately. I'll be working with him to resolve his problems. Anything generally useful will make its way into future tutorials.

    Tom

  7. #7

    Thumbs up Re: Trumpet sound....not like the demos!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hopkins
    Matt has contacted me privately. I'll be working with him to resolve his problems. Anything generally useful will make its way into future tutorials.

    Tom
    Ask a trumpet question - best to get an answer from a professional trumpet player. Of course it helps that said player is one of the principal architects of the software...

    Houston Haynes - Titan Line Music

  8. #8

    Re: Trumpet sound....not like the demos!

    That's what I thought! Tom is a great guy. Thanks to everyone for their input.

  9. #9

    Re: Trumpet sound....not like the demos!

    I know this is ancient history but... was there any success on the phasing with the trumpets? I'm just starting out with JABB using Finale 2008.

    There are a few things I've yet to try (like detuning, etc), but noticed this thread talked about the exact same issue. I've scanned the tutorials trying to find something per the conclusion of this thread (I could be looking in the wrong place), but wasn't able to find any guidance. If someone could point me to where I might be able to find such tips for getting the problem of unison trumpets sounding right, I'd be much obliged.

    Thanks,
    Steve

  10. #10

    Re: Trumpet sound....not like the demos!

    Hi Tom,
    I am in the same situation as Matt but i'm slowly getting my head around this.
    Can you tell me, after recording a melody, if I re-record the modwheel does it have the same effect as adding modwheel information in the 'Hyper edit' in Logic, also adding 'breath' has also been mentioned, can this be assigned to the modwheel and added the same way?
    I'm trying to copy a brass section on a Jools Holland recording, I know the instruments that were used, i've recorded the same, added 5 to Var 1 and 25 to Var 2, also some hall reverb, but it still does'nt have that sound.
    I might be pushing things here, i've been recording for a long time and I know that when recording horns the mics pick a lot of other stuff up!
    Any help will be appreciated.

    Phil

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