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Topic: Revisited - JABB "All Of Me"

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  1. #1

    Revisited - JABB "All Of Me"

    After a disappointing first attempt, I have reworked this mock up of Billy Byers Big Band arrangement for Count Basie of "All Of Me":

    All of Me - revisited

    I am much more pleased with this version, but there are still some tweaks that I need to do - I just don't know what they are at the moment

    For reference, the original version I posted is here:

    All of Me - first attempt

    I would really appreciate any comments (good or bad) on the new version - even better if you have the time and inclination to listen to both versions and provide feedback on how better or worse the new one compares to my first attempt.

    Thanks.
    Richard N.

    Finale 2003 to 2007 ~ Garritan GPO, JABB & Strad ~ Sonar 6PE ~ Kontakt 2 ~ WinXP Home SP2

    Athlon XP 2200 ~ 1.5 Gb RAM ~ M-Audio Sound Card ~ M-Audio 88ES MIDI keyboard ~ Evolution MK-461C

    Bach Strad LT16MG, LT36G, 42B + B&H Sovereign Studio Tenor Trombones ~ Holton 181 Bass Trombone ~ Getzen Bass Trumpet ~ Yamaha TR4335G Trumpet ~ B&H Euphonium

  2. #2

    Re: Revisited - JABB "All Of Me"

    hmm...

    Better mix...

    I think the piano might need to be a _hair_ more promininent - that might be personal taste, though.

    One thing that might make this sound more realistic is if you offset the instruments timing from each other a few ticks in Sonar... the runs and licks are SO perfectly synched that it sounds fake. IIRC you can select a track and move it forward or backwards in seconds/measures/ticks.. I'd try it small amounts at first, (and save the project under a new name just in case )

    On the plus side, I can tell you've done some tweaking to this, and it shows. Keep up the good work!


  3. #3

    Re: Revisited - JABB "All Of Me"

    Thanks for the feedback Jonathon,

    I take your point about moving each track a few ticks -

    I normally play each part into Sonar live to avoid a mechanical sound - but I was suffering a DAW glitch with latency (now fixed) so I experimented with writing all the frontline parts in Finale and exporting the midi file (no Human Playback applied) into Sonar. I then tweaked each part for mod wheel, vibrato, legato etc., and then I randomized each part - obviously not enough in places

    It was still a good exercise for me though - I've learned a lot more about using Sonar editing tools in the process.
    Richard N.

    Finale 2003 to 2007 ~ Garritan GPO, JABB & Strad ~ Sonar 6PE ~ Kontakt 2 ~ WinXP Home SP2

    Athlon XP 2200 ~ 1.5 Gb RAM ~ M-Audio Sound Card ~ M-Audio 88ES MIDI keyboard ~ Evolution MK-461C

    Bach Strad LT16MG, LT36G, 42B + B&H Sovereign Studio Tenor Trombones ~ Holton 181 Bass Trombone ~ Getzen Bass Trumpet ~ Yamaha TR4335G Trumpet ~ B&H Euphonium

  4. #4

    Re: Revisited - JABB "All Of Me"

    Got this up on the big speakers, and it sounds fantastic Richard!

    I would have to agree with Jonathan, though -- I would suggest bringing the piano up a fair amount on this.

    Great job! Thanks for bringing it back in this revision... I think we all learn a lot by listening to your working through the process.

    Best,

    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .

  5. #5

    Re: Revisited - JABB "All Of Me"

    Nice chart, Mr. Richard. I really like your work. Thanks.

    With all due respect, there is something amiss with the bass part. It sounds as though it may be clashing with the piano left hand and/or the thump of the bass drum or something. It's not as clean and pristine as I know you are capable of. I admit that I am picky in this category because I am a long-time bass player.

    We all appreciate your talent and the fact that you share your work with us.

    LGA
    Larry G. Alexander
    www.alexandermusic.com

  6. #6

    Re: Revisited - JABB "All Of Me"

    Hey, Richard N:

    Great work man. This second attempt is a very noticeable improvement on the first try. You are getting it all together as far as I am concerned and I know you are having fun doing it.

    Agree with the others about bringing the piano up a little as "Bassie" never sat in the background on anything............

    The brass is shiny and comes right atcha.......Good sound, especially when you bring it up and down......that's wailing.

    All in all, I really liked this one, Richard. Now it's time to practice the bone and do another one. I am about finishing up one of my own tunes, so you can critique mine soon........Hit me hard. LOL

    Best,

    Jack
    Jack Cannon--Toshiba laptop, 2.8 GHz CPU, 1.5 GB RAM, GPO4-JABB3-Auth. STEINWAY-Gofriller CELLO-Stradivari VIOLIN-COMB2-WORLD, FINALE 2009/11, RME Digiface, Cardbus, V-Stack---Mac Pro 2.66 GHz CPU, 8 GB RAM, DP 8, MOTU Traveler, MOTU Micro Express.--MacBook Pro 2.2 Ghz CPU, 8 GB RAM.

  7. #7

    Re: Revisited - JABB "All Of Me"

    Nice work. The second is definitely an improvement. Among those improvements are the reverb... I think you can go further with this though. Still sounds a little springy. I'd be inclined to increase the reverb time, but dull it down a shade so its not so intrusive and maybe add a high pass filter to take the bass out of the reverb a bit. Maybe that's not completely accurate of a live performance, but it will add clarity.

    One other thing that really sticks out to me is the trumpets at 2:14. They do this little ornamenty kind of thing (sorry been out of theory for too long to remember what it actually is... mordant maybe?). The attacks on them are too prominent. Back off the attack on everything but the first of the group should make this more natural sounding. The ones at 1:45ish that are much lower in dynamics sound much better to my ears.

    Do I remember correctly that the trombone solo is actually you? If it's not, the programming is pure mastery. If it is, it's really well played.

    If I was to work on anything else, I think it would be swells. Some are great (sfz in the trumpets at 0:42), but some aren't quite so great (trumpets at 4:16), and I personally think there should be more of them. Written or not, certainly a big band trumpet section puts a gazillion of these things in - the trumpet closing theme is too straight dynamically for my liking.

    Nice high note on the lead trumpet at the end would be cool too. Might not be in the arrangement, but I don't know many lead players who would be able to resist putting it up the octave or two...

    Sorry to be so trumpet biased. I'm a trumpet player.

    R

  8. #8

    Re: Revisited - JABB "All Of Me"

    Some lovely bone soloing on this Richard.I also enjoyed the fp crescendos.
    regards

  9. #9
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    Re: Revisited - JABB "All Of Me"

    I had on my phones and those trumpets about knocked me off my chair.

    Listened to it through the stereo and it sounds real good. I't's hard to get the energy of a real big band but it's close.

  10. #10

    Re: Revisited - JABB "All Of Me"

    Thank you all for some great feedback.

    I'll try to summarise my thoughts on your comments:

    Piano level - on relistening, I agree the piano is a tad low in the mix, but perhaps a tweak on the reverb to make it appear closer may be more appropriate. The essence of this arrangement is the stark difference between the quiet rhythm section compared to the loud frontline sections

    Bass part - this one has me stumped Larry . There is no left hand piano anywhere near the bass line, and there is no bass drum in there either. As far as I can see, the bass setup and mix is the same as I have done on other demos. I'll listen again and see if I can hear what you are describing.

    Reverb - thanks for the input Dabbler, I am still a newbie on Reverb settings. I'll try out your suggestions.

    Turns/mordents - Dabbler, I agree that the turns vary in success in different places. I tried to make sure that I used the legato setting on each turn, but I agree that it doesn't always appear to have taken effect. The fact that I got some of them to work is encouraging though

    fp swells - again I agree that some were good and some were not so good. In fact I think this is one area where my first attempt was better than my revisit.

    End screamer - there is actually a reasonable lead trumpet scream in there, but this is one big aspect of JABB I haven't yet sussed - making the extended trumpet range actually sound extended. It is too clean/accurate/whatever and doesn't stand out. I am sure that there is a technique that will get the right result but I haven't found it yet.

    Jazz trombone - yes this was played live by me. It's good to hear positive feedback on my chops - Thank you.

    The reason for this second demo featuring live trombone is because I am putting together a [non-commercial] CD to (hopefully) showcase my trombone and piano chops.

    Thank you all again for your encouragement and constructive comments.
    Richard N.

    Finale 2003 to 2007 ~ Garritan GPO, JABB & Strad ~ Sonar 6PE ~ Kontakt 2 ~ WinXP Home SP2

    Athlon XP 2200 ~ 1.5 Gb RAM ~ M-Audio Sound Card ~ M-Audio 88ES MIDI keyboard ~ Evolution MK-461C

    Bach Strad LT16MG, LT36G, 42B + B&H Sovereign Studio Tenor Trombones ~ Holton 181 Bass Trombone ~ Getzen Bass Trumpet ~ Yamaha TR4335G Trumpet ~ B&H Euphonium

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