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Topic: Trouble with PMI Old Lady and Emperor in Kontakt 2

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  1. #1

    Trouble with PMI Old Lady and Emperor in Kontakt 2

    After a few months of pulling my hair out, I'm hoping someone here can point me in the right direction (especially since I build DAW's for a business).

    I'm having a problem on my personal DAW. I'm not able to get either of the PMI libraries to play properly in Kontakt 2.0.2 (either in Nuendo 3.2 or standalone). I'm getting occassional pops, clicks, and dropouts (also a wierd sustain pedal won't release issue when using the biggest patch in Emperor). The strange thing is that neither the CPU or disk meter ever maxes out. It got to the point that i completly wiped my PC and started over again. The PC is an Athalon XP 3200 with 1.5 GB of RAM. The samples were loaded to a 10,000 RPM Raptop drive where the were the first thing loaded onto the HD for the best performance possible (defragging after each library was loaded). The system is completely optimized for audio work and i don't have any problems with anything else i'm using.

    So does anyone have any ideas or suggestions?

  2. #2

    Re: Trouble with PMI Old Lady and Emperor in Kontakt 2

    Hi tak81, probably you have already tested all I'm going to say but I hope I can help you someway.

    - Check it out the latency of your soundcard.
    - Set the DFD Preload Buffer Size to top.
    - Mostly of the piano libraries have samples at 44kHz but these two PMI pianos are at 48kHz. Check your soundcard are working at this sample rate.

    Good luck!

  3. #3

    Re: Trouble with PMI Old Lady and Emperor in Kontakt 2

    Also had the "sustaining sustain" problem with the Emperor and the "K2 Emperor FULL+.nkm" patch. The solution (in my case) was simple: go inside the "K2 emp sus resonance" instrument and change the latency of the convolution effect to at least 2,9 ms. Problem gone (whyever...). (Btw.: I like the Emperor better just with the pedal up samples, the convolution effect and the sympathetic resonance script from Kornel Mezo, imo sounds even more realistic, needs less ram and doesn't stress the disk so much - perhaps that helps with your crackle problems...(at my setup the original file (with the described change) is working fine, too though, the other variant is imo just a little bit more "convincing"))

    NothanUmber

  4. #4

    Re: Trouble with PMI Old Lady and Emperor in Kontakt 2

    Quote Originally Posted by tak81
    I'm having a problem on my personal DAW.

    The PC is an Athalon XP 3200 with 1.5 GB of RAM. The samples were loaded to a 10,000 RPM Raptop drive where the were the first thing loaded onto the HD for the best performance possible (defragging after each library was loaded). The system is completely optimized for audio work and i don't have any problems with anything else i'm using.

    So does anyone have any ideas or suggestions?
    Ideas enough!
    1/ hardware:
    - does it help when you raise your soundcard latency and/or buffers? Just for testing does a latency of 40 ms solve clicks?
    - latest asio drivers for your soundcard installed and also what card are you using?
    - try the free download asio4all asio driver as it works better than many "official" audio card asio drivers
    - did you test the memory chips (memtest.xp)?
    - did you measure the data transfer rate of the 10k drive? Sisoft Sandra test.

    2/ software
    - Kontakt database rebuild; required operation after insalling a library with +1.500 samples. It helps K2 find the samples faster.
    - did you disable the windows swapfile (virtual memory?)
    - if you load just the pedal up version with DFD disabled (loading all samples in RAM only) is the problem gone?
    Best regards,
    Michiel Post


  5. #5

    Re: Trouble with PMI Old Lady and Emperor in Kontakt 2

    Good thoughts - here's some additional info.
    1. Soundcard is an RME Multiface/PCI set with the most recent drivers and firmware.
    2. I've tried changing the DFD setting in several ways with no success.
    3. Samplerate makes no difference, latency may (especially in the sustain pedal thing - if i put the latency at 12ms or higher, it goes away), I'll play around with this more over the weekend. The problem is that I need to be running 6ms or lower for playability.
    4. I'll try the suggestion for the convolution setting on Emperor tonight.
    5. Pagefile is set at a fixed size and is located on a separate hard drive from the OS hard drive and the Samples HD.
    6. I'll try the pedal up no DFD thing this weekend too.
    7. I don't think rebuilding the library will help since I just reinstalled everything and didn't even launch Kontakt until the samples were in the appropriate directories.

    Also, I should note, that the majority (99%) of the issues i'm having are with the K2 presets only. For example the Old Lady Bright preset (while i absolutely love) plays fine at 3ms latency. Even the "small" K2 presets give me issues.

    Thanks for your help everyone.

  6. #6

    Re: Trouble with PMI Old Lady and Emperor in Kontakt 2

    I too have a similar problem. I have old lady.
    whereas my other libraries including TBO doesn't have the same problem.
    There is one old lady patch, dont' even remember which one, but it takes about ten minutes to load and evne one note causes it to crackle and pop.
    I think it is using some convultions or scripts or something that is currently one of the MILLIONS (ok not quite :-)) of bugs in K2...

    rsp
    richard sven
    sound sculptist
    ------------------
    Nuendo 4.3 | Intel DP35DP : Intel Quad Core QX 6700 : 4GB RAM | Windows XP Pro SP3 | Lynx Two C | Midisport 2x2 | 2xUAD-1, UAD-2 Quad |

    Cubase 4.5.2 | MacBookPro 2.16 Ghz | 10.6.3 | 2GB | TC Konnekt 8

  7. #7

    Re: Trouble with PMI Old Lady and Emperor in Kontakt 2

    That's what i'm starting to wonder about. I know about all the bugs in K2 (and I know how hard it is to have a product that complex tested and patched, i took a few computer science classes in college). I even reported the bug and the reproduction steps to NI as well as sending an email to PMI a while back about the sustain pedal thing. (I never heard back from NI, of course). I'm beginning to think that it's some scripting and colvolution issues that are the problem here. I'm going to try some other scripts this weekend to see if it's a problem with the scripts.

  8. #8

    Re: Trouble with PMI Old Lady and Emperor in Kontakt 2

    Ok, I have some disk benchmarks for my Sample Hard Drive. Unfortunately the Lite version of SiSoft Sandra doesn't have HD benching in it, but i found a few other tools that gave me similar results. Here you go:
    Linear Read 58.25 MB/Sec
    Random Read 3.99 MB/Sec
    Access Time 6.81 ms
    It's a 10,000 RPM SATA Raptor and makes the other drives in my system look like they should be used as doorstops.

  9. #9

    Re: Trouble with PMI Old Lady and Emperor in Kontakt 2

    OK, I tried a few more things this weekend with some success. I think my problems are Kontakt 2 issues more than anything.

    I built a "new" K2 Old Lady multi by combining the pedal up, pedal down, harmonics, and key sounds (i think, i'm at work right now) .nki's and now i'm able to play and 6ms with no issues. I need to adjust the multi to get a good "bright" version still, but that's another thing entirely.

    So all in all, i think there are issues with the scripting and convution segments of K2. The problems have dissapeared when i stop using those 2 tools.

  10. #10

    Re: Trouble with PMI Old Lady and Emperor in Kontakt 2

    Hi Tak81,
    You don't mind giving more specifications of the piano you built? I would like to build up one also. .
    Thanks if you could help me out here,

    best regards,

    Steve Martin.

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