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Topic: EQ for opus 2nd violins?

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  1. #1

    Smile EQ for opus 2nd violins?

    Greetings everybody.

    I´ve ordered Opus 1 and have been thinking about "building" my own 2nd violins from the 1st violinensemble or the violas. I´ve read that using a bit of eq can make the difference between the 1 and 2 violindivision clearer and satisfying. I´m not so skilled in the eq-business I´m afraid. I cant afford any chamberstrings or solostrings library to compliment either..

    Anyone out there with any kind of advice/guidelines?

    /Johnny Strömgren, Sweden

  2. #2
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    Re: EQ for opus 2nd violins?

    What plug or hardware will you use for EQ ing?

  3. #3

    Re: EQ for opus 2nd violins?

    I´m not sure which eq I will use. Good question.

    I dont own any of those expensive ones, so maybe I´ll use something that comes with Cubase SL3, which I´ve also ordered. (Maybe it has almost the same eq-plugs as SX3?) I have been working and kind of mixing with midi mostly, until now. SL3 will be my first audio/midi/sequencer/recorder.

    Or if anyone has any suggestion to a better, freeware (vst?) eq, suitable for my needs?

    What do ya think PaulR?

  4. #4

    Re: EQ for opus 2nd violins?

    I think positioning with reverb and panning would be more the focus on getting a 2nd violin sound. Also if doing unison lines with 1st violins make sure to use a different "patch" than the first to avoid phasing

    I'm not familiar with Opus, so I'm not sure what types of "tweaks" can be done at the instrument level.
    Operation Mindcrime 2, in stores now.
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  5. #5

    Re: EQ for opus 2nd violins?

    Quote Originally Posted by KingIdiot
    I think positioning with reverb and panning would be more the focus on getting a 2nd violin sound.
    I have an idea about panning but how would one use reverb to differentiate between the first and second violins?
    Thanks, JP

  6. #6
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    Re: EQ for opus 2nd violins?

    Quote Originally Posted by drjohnny79
    I´m not sure which eq I will use. Good question.

    I dont own any of those expensive ones, so maybe I´ll use something that comes with Cubase SL3, which I´ve also ordered. (Maybe it has almost the same eq-plugs as SX3?) I have been working and kind of mixing with midi mostly, until now. SL3 will be my first audio/midi/sequencer/recorder.

    Or if anyone has any suggestion to a better, freeware (vst?) eq, suitable for my needs?

    What do ya think PaulR?
    Well, they don't have to be expensive really. I don't know anything really about the plugs that come with Cubase. In Logic, the EQ insert is at the top of the channel strip and that works quite well. It shows, like a lot of EQ plugs where there may be peeks and troughs - where you may want to roll off 3 or 4 Db or whatever.
    There are some other plugs that are quite graphic in terms of EQ comparison to a similar sound source, like Match EQ in Logic for example.
    Like King says - you need to relabel etc your violin section in Opus otherwise phasing will occur.
    Actually, I wouldn't even bother with that for second violins. What you could do is get everything set up orchestrally in midi - forget about phasing - just use a different violin patch to first violins and when it's all done to your liking - setup 2nd violins to the patch you really want and then render to an audio track. Then panning and Eqing etc can be done.
    Reverb is aguably more important than EQ with quality sample libraries. Skimping on reverb for quality results is probably not a good idea.

    http://www.macprovideo.com/tutorial/logicPlugins1

    This is a pretty good guide to plug-ins in Logic. I know this is not Cubase, but may be useful. There may well be one for Cubase - I don't know.

  7. #7

    Re: EQ for opus 2nd violins?

    I made another post a few weeks back where I detailed my own opus-1 violin experiments - http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ad.php?t=42654


    For that, I didn't really use EQ to change timbre between 1st and 2nd violins. Instead, I used different stereo widths (1sts were wider) and perhaps different relative volumes for the layers in the patch (see 2nd page of the thread for details). The stereo width is what I think in theory would make the difference though; they're playing the same instruments and with just about the same number of people, so the timbre isn't so much changed as is the positioning and space.

    And for the record, I'm referring to the orchestral setup where the 2nds are behind the firsts... not the one where they're on the right and still in the front. If that's the one you're after, I'm not sure what you'd do in the patch to differentiate between the firsts.
    Wilbert Roget, II
    Composer
    Rogetmusic.com

  8. #8

    Re: EQ for opus 2nd violins?

    Assuming they are chromatically sampled, the best solution here is to remap the "2nd" violins a half step down, this way even if you do a unison with the first violins, you will be using different samples, and you will avoid phasing. You can alternately map the samples up instead, but I think the slightly darker sound from mapping down will be more appropriate for many 2nd violins parts. Try both!

  9. #9

    Re: EQ for opus 2nd violins?

    I appreciate all your comments, dear composers!

    Yes, I have read some at the vsl-forum about different techniques. The Opus violions arnt cromatically sampled (but in wholetones) I think. That is the difference between Opus and the more expensive versions. But remapping in wholetones might give quite good results too?

    Yeah, I will definitely check out the possibilities with reverb+pan+stereowidth settings!

    I feel a little bit worried about a change in "work-flow"/productionmethod being necessary for me with my new K2 - SL3 setup. It´s hard for me to explain. But I really like achieving "almost final results" as I compose, meaning I make changes to the instruments pan and fx early in the process, with only fine adjustments and dynamic processing in the end. I understand doing this with k2 and convolution needs ALOT of computer power. So most people use alot of post processing instead. Is that right? Sorry if all this sounds confusing to you all!

    I have mostly composed for my Akai S3000xl with internal fx or real musicians (not trying to sound as if I´m particulary skilled in any of those two) so you understand this is a huge step for me!

    /Johnny

  10. #10

    Re: EQ for opus 2nd violins?

    You can still do it with whole-tones, just a bit more stretching involved. Maybe you should pick up another, low-priced string set instead, and just use the violins. There are a couple options out there.

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