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Topic: Pirarcy article from the legal side MUCH better then my first

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  1. #1

    Pirarcy/CP article from the legal side MUCH better then my first

    http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/390

    This for everybody but espically those people who go nuts and love copy protection and all its glory. Read this and see how a legitmate person who buys from a major company cant even use it. This is good, truley from the other side from the legit side, so those who thought the last article i posted was only talking about cracking stuff, here is the other side, complete legitment users who cat do anythign becuase cp has run amuck, I cant wait to see what people think of this one. Honestly i wish i had found this first it really blows my other article away that i found. Enjoy, comment and discuss

  2. #2

    Re: Pirarcy article from the legal side MUCH better then my first

    That DVD shuffle reminded me of the Amiga 500... to play Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis you had to take a break... from life! So much swapping one had to do.
    Theo Krueger - Composer

    www.TheoKrueger.com

    Kontakt 2 Scripts

  3. #3

    Re: Pirarcy article from the legal side MUCH better then my first

    Lots of interesting points. However he harps on about the fact that he couldn't share articles with his students. I'm not so sure that he should be able to, after all that's what Educational licences are for. There is an argument about Fair Use, but Educational establishments have flouted many of the restrictions for years, so I'm not surprised that CP stops some of this.
    I'm not saying that it's right, but the phrase "reap what ye sow" comes to mind.

    D

  4. #4

    Re: Pirarcy article from the legal side MUCH better then my first

    Quote Originally Posted by Daryl
    Lots of interesting points. However he harps on about the fact that he couldn't share articles with his students. I'm not so sure that he should be able to, after all that's what Educational licences are for. There is an argument about Fair Use, but Educational establishments have flouted many of the restrictions for years, so I'm not surprised that CP stops some of this.
    I'm not saying that it's right, but the phrase "reap what ye sow" comes to mind.

    D
    Same experience with this comes to mind with classical music. By it's very definition and the 'age' of the genre, i was asked more than once in the past why this educational place or that should have to pay royalties for classical music, as it was 'too old, and didn't attract copyright regulations as modern music did.'

    Needless to say, when the rules were pointed out, a few declined the opportunity to use my (and others) work, because it wasn't free.
    I'm sure most of us who attended Conservatoire or colleges saw many instances of the institution flouting the fairplay regulations and simply copying and/or performing work that should have attracted some payment for the author or the rights holder, under the guise and misplaced assumption of 'education.'
    The other curious point is, particularly with classical music, the result of interaction with a 'live' composer.
    More than once, i've met administrators and even music teachers who simply can't associate classical music with a composer who's living and standing in front of them. It's as if they steadfastly believe that anything written in this genre must be from dead people and the historical mythology that goes with that assumption. Maybe this is the reason for flouting the rules, and assuming all classical music is free by right. I don't like stealth driven CP, particularly the encrypted custom player only type, but i share your view that educational institutions bear some responsibility for the consequence of their own behaviour and assumptions.


    Regards,

    Alex.

  5. #5

    Re: Pirarcy article from the legal side MUCH better then my first

    I know of many occasions where an arrangement of a piece of music was played in a concert by students with not only no permission for the arrangement, but no thought of royalties either. There are rules, but most schools and Educational establishments seem to prefer not to obey them.
    Maybe it is time for a global re-stating of the rules so that nobody can be in any doubt about what is and what is not legal. I remember a few years ago that some schools in the UK were fined for photocopying music rather than buying extra copies. For a while things quietened down, but it still goes on to a large extent, and it shouldn't.

    D

  6. #6

    Re: Pirarcy article from the legal side MUCH better then my first

    I don't think it's all that great of an argument either.

    If you read carefully, it's not really from the legal side either (check out the section on the BAFTA DVDs). It's the typical "No CP is better than CP" argument...DUH!! How about an intelligent guy that talks about smarter ways to do it and which systems are finding a good balance. The old "if someone can break it, then why have it at all" thing is really tiring.

    He also ignores the whole point that "light protection" systems that slow down casual copying have a very effective result of reducing piracy, and thus providing a potential market.

    The easier something is to copy, the harder it is to sell. When it is so easy to copy that the average person doesn't even think about it, you have a real problem of how to value intellectual property.

    To me, this is a far greater danger to society at large than simply an inconvenience of not being able to instantly text select on a Linux machine!

    He mixes lots of un-related examples up in one stew and calls it all bad. Some DRM stuff is really stupidly implemented and deserves to be trashed....but it's certainly not all the same....that's painting with too broad a brush.

    There are many erroneous and silly claims being made here:

    • His DVD-ROM didn't work on a Linux system. My guess is that the disc packaging only claims to be OSX/Windows anyway, so that's really not a big deal. Obviously, that would be a risk that any Linux system user would know comes with the territory of using a more non-commercial OS platform.

    • Most of the rest of the problems he had with the New Yorker DVD set had to do with it being a poorly designed product, not necessarily DRM issues on the whole. Sounds like the product wasn't well thought out for normal use.

    • He was able to work around the text copying he needed to do for his students with a simple pdf printing workaround. (The OCR step shouldn't have been necessary either).

    • He also didn't violate any laws like the DMCA either, since his application was already under Fair Use. Printing to a pdf is hardly circumventing a protection system and that's a huge stretch to imagine that the courts would interpret the DMCA in that way. That language that he quoted in the DMCA is all about cracking DVD encryption algorithms, etc....not simple workarounds like he's talking about.

    • iTunes AAC audio format ain't going anywhere. That format is going to be around a long time. If it changes or goes away, there will be converters that take it to other formats. There already are.

    • "Feeling sorry" for iTunes customers because their investment will be "worthless" in a few years is totally ridiculous. A billion songs later, theirs is good example of a system that works well for commerce and consumer alike. It's changed the entire music business and shown the way forward to have a more modern type of music business that can work in the 21st century. Educators like this fellow would just rather have everything back in the wonderful "free" Napster days again.

    • These arguments like to have it both ways. One the one hand they say that protection can be easily thwarted by anyone. On the other hand they say that legit users investments will be worthless because they can't copy them easily. You can't have it both ways.

    • The screener DVDs for the BAFTA awards that required special players....so what? That's not a commercial or educational product. The academy members were provided the players...it's just a different delivery system for very legitimate security reasons. After the disaster of the Oscar screener leaks to the internet a couple of years ago, this kind of security is certainly warranted. What's his point...that it's sad that the BAFTA DVDs were harder to pirate? That academy members had to use a special player to watch a film?.....so what?

    • It's just silly that the "convenience" of text selection is seen as equating to a Fair Use "consitutional right"....geez...most people just don't get it.

    It's unbelievable when educators believe that anyone would have "RIGHTS" to intellectual property distribution except for the copyright holder. If you don't like how they are protecting their stuff...go somewhere else/buy something else...it's a free country and New Yorker isn't the only source of information in the world.

    The people that produce and promote sensible systems that find a good balance will win the hearts and minds of industry and public alike.

  7. #7

    Re: Pirarcy article from the legal side MUCH better then my first

    More erroneous quotes from the article:

    "FairPlay limits what you can do with the music you buy, leaving Apple in charge of your music, not you."

    No...the copyright holders made Apple do this. So the people with the right to copy the music are controlling their right to how it gets duplicated. That's pretty much the definition of the word.

    "Want to play a song you purchased from iTMS on a device other than an iPod? Uh-uh."

    iTunes clearly sells songs for the iPod, so its not sneaky.

    It's also not all that hard to convert your iTunes songs into other platforms that can be played elsewhere if you want to.

    "Want to load music onto an iPod using something other than iTunes? Silly boy."

    Wow...what a joke! And this guy teaches technology courses at a major university??!!

    The iPod would be pretty useless to me if it didn't read .mp3, .aif, etc.

    "Even worse, some universities are now making lectures and classes available using iTMS, a slap in the face to the open nature of learning and education."

    Yeah, that's pretty terrible isn't it. :-)

    "Sure, you can remove FairPlay's DRM, but you're still left with a music file recorded at a pretty crappy level,"

    Uhhh....really? Most of the stuff I've bought on iTunes sounds extremely good for a compressed format. The level is no different than what's on the CD versions. Apple does an excellent job of the encoding and prep of the files. I've never had a bad or low level file delivered. The average person can't tell the difference between iTunes AAC files and their CDs.


    "...and converting it to a more open format only makes it sound worse."

    Oh brother....ever convert it to 16/44.1 or 24/44.1 aif/wav? Sounds virtually identical to the original AAC encoded file.

    This guy acts like he knows what he's talking about, but its clear he just doesn't like any protection on anything at all and offers no solutions on a better way of doing it.

  8. #8

    Re: Pirarcy article from the legal side MUCH better then my first

    Eric,
    you've written a lot of sense in your replies, something the original author seems to lack. Yes, he sounds like he's complaining, without offering an alternative. I suspect he's not the only one, with critcism of CP related to user use, and little regard for the financial viability of the company selling the product. I find this a little strange, as a company going out of business through losses attributable to piracy, either privately, or through educational institutions, helps no one, and offers no support. If a company makes a terrible product then few are going to copy it anyway, so it's the good stuff, i suspect, that offers the most temptation, and presents the greatest risk of copying, therefore needing the best CP compromise between ease of use for the genuine buyer and restriction on those who would copy without paying.

    Alex.

  9. #9

    Re: Pirarcy article from the legal side MUCH better then my first

    Although I didn't read the whole article ( What can I say .. it was long winded and boring). The gist I got is that the product in question put him over the edge. He is willing to go to the dark side, or should I say got pushed to the brink. Each and every one of us has a line that gets drawn. His line might not be yours, but rest assured some company out there is aiming to cross yours. There are plenty of companies willing to shoot their foot in spite for the dark side. Sony comes to mind as a company that has lost their senses. They (were .. are) actually willing to lose costomer base to beat the meanies.

    Businesses dealing in software have to make a tough decision where that median line is, for the sake of establishing their best return. Some have a pretty good idea, while others haven't got a clue. You as a consumer can vote with your dollar. From my perspective .... Sony doesn't get one red cent along with a few other choice companies. I'm not going to steal from Sony, but for cripe sakes, don't (make) me want to steal from you. In the case of the New Yorker they are willing to make your experience less pleasurable in hopes of making more money. Whether they did or not is unknown. You as a consumer do know however that your product could have been much better.


    I think from both sides of the fence.

    This all SUCKS!

  10. #10

    Re: Pirarcy article from the legal side MUCH better then my first

    As the owner of a small studio housing 3 composers, a sound designer and support staff - it would be interesting to add up how much money I've spent over the years on the installation and monthly monitoring of our building's security system; fees paid to our amazing IT person and to software vendors to protect our servers and workstations from outside intrusion; even insurance to cover our losses in case of a theft. Now that I think of it, I probably don't want to know, because the number will only make me angry. It will make me think of raises or bonuses I couldn't give...new equipment or software I couldn't buy...about how the neccessity of all this expense makes it harder for me to make a profit - hence...stay in business.

    All because there are bad people who do bad things...like steal.

    My sense is that the software companies who make the amazing products we use every day (and perhaps take for granted) aren't that different from my company. We're passionate about what we do, and we want to give our customers the very best. We want to have integrity in the way we approach our work and do business. And we need to make a profit. Otherwise we can't keep doing what we do, and we certainly can't grow.

    Would I rather NOT have to go through all that trouble to prevent bad people from stealing from me? Absolutely! And I suspect that most software companies feel the same way. I don't know him personally, but I'll bet if you ask Eric Persing (an individual whom I respect and admire for the way he does business) if he would rather be able to trust that people won't steal his software, you'll get a swift and predictable answer. But sadly, it's just not the way the world works.

    So for me, it's pretty simple. Do I want people to steal from me? Of course not. Therefore no cracked software is allowed at our company. Does my choice amount to a hill of beans? Not likely. But at least I can sleep at night.

    I'm reminded of something my Grandfather said once. "The only thing a lock is good for is to keep an honest man honest. A committed thief will always find a way to get into your house." It's inconvenient at times, but I'll tolerate some locks if it means that good people at good software companies can stay in business and keep making good software.

    Fred Story

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