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Topic: Great article on piracy from both sides

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  1. #1

    Great article on piracy from both sides

    Hi all i just read this and thought it was very interesting and enjoyed reading, it not yoru typical i hate this i love this form of cp at all, its very intresting i invite you all to read it. Just somthind i found, dont know how old it is but its still a good read and applys to today at well.
    http://www.twitchguru.com/2005/12/14...ker/index.html
    Hope you all enjoy

  2. #2

    Re: Great article on piracy from both sides

    Yeah...still pretty one-sided POV though.

    Gaming is a whole different kind of business than music software. Market's just a bit bigger... ;-)

    Finding a good balance is what it's all about. Legit customers should have more priviledges and a better experience than illegit users. I think there are a lot of ways of doing that that are effective.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Tom Crowning's Avatar
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    Re: Great article on piracy from both sides

    Quote Originally Posted by spectrum
    Yeah...still pretty one-sided POV though.

    Gaming is a whole different kind of business than music software. Market's just a bit bigger... ;-)

    Finding a good balance is what it's all about. Legit customers should have more priviledges and a better experience than illegit users. I think there are a lot of ways of doing that that are effective.
    Yep, it's one-sided, but there are some valid points there.
    I use a no-disk patch (that's not legal) for a game I bought for good money,
    and Steinberg could have sold Cubase SX3 if it wouldn't need a dongle
    (no, I don't use a crack, I purchased Cubase SE. $200 less for Steinberg...).

    50% of the copy protections used nowadays are more a kind of
    'usage-protection' for the legal buyers.
    And the calculations of manufacturers (and the MI as well) that they'd have
    lost millions of dollars because illegal copies are used by thousands of
    people is, to say it nicely, optimistic.

    Tom

  4. #4

    Re: Great article on piracy from both sides

    One thing I noticed from the article is that the PC games the author is referring to use ongoing copy protection methods: you have to prove your legal purchase every time you run the software. I was unaware of this since I'm mostly a console gamer, but that actually jogs my memory back nearly 10 years, to this San Francisco-based racing game called "Vette". I bought it legally, and it required you to put in a random word from the manual in order to start the game. I wasn't the most responsible kid in the world, and eventually lost the manual.... and the ability to play my favorite videogame at the time (perhaps it was even the only game I had at the time). Let's just leave it at, this was a very upsetting experience and I went gameless for quite some time.

    Fast forward 10 years and now let's look at our music software. For a long time it was a one-time-only kind of copy protection for most products, but now that we're introducing dongles into the picture, the plot thickens. I wouldn't mind it if dongles were a one time thing when installing the software, but the fact that you have to use it every single time really worries me. Even a single computer freeze can mess you up severely when you're on a deadline - can you imagine the damage a broken/misplaced Cubase dongle could do to TV composer??

    I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not so much worried about wasting USB ports, or even the idea of being "unfairly policed" by the developers. What scares me is just the idea of having to pass through authentication every time you open the sequencer, play the VI, use that VST effect, etc. Perhaps the solution would be to use one-time-only dongles for installation, but not require them for every use of the product. Perhaps you could equip the dongle with a counter, to make sure the product only installs a certain number of times.

    With all our deadlines and CPU/HD/RAM abuse, we run a very delicate operation here!!
    Wilbert Roget, II
    Composer
    Rogetmusic.com

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    Re: Great article on piracy from both sides

    I don't think that it was a great article. The guy that wrote it obviously posseses a fair amount of intelligence, and his use of the English language proves he has some formal education.

    He does bring forth a few valid points, but it seems to me that he is trying to justify cracked software - at least his use of cracked sw - because he actually purchases what he uses. Are we now supposed to bow to his "honorable ways"?

    To me, this is just another chapter in the barrage of attempts to legitimize cracking sw. Just because it is well written, and has a few points from the other side in an attempt at "balance", does not make it any different, nor better than any other article.

  6. #6

    Re: Great article on piracy from both sides

    Quote Originally Posted by RiffWraith
    I don't think that it was a great article. The guy that wrote it obviously posseses a fair amount of intelligence, and his use of the English language proves he has some formal education.

    He does bring forth a few valid points, but it seems to me that he is trying to justify cracked software - at least his use of cracked sw - because he actually purchases what he uses. Are we now supposed to bow to his "honorable ways"?

    To me, this is just another chapter in the barrage of attempts to legitimize cracking sw. Just because it is well written, and has a few points from the other side in an attempt at "balance", does not make it any different, nor better than any other article.
    I do not agree with one thing you said. How many times have dongels been discussed here. And how people dont care for them how they always have to be attached to the machine. I dont see why that is nesscary at all. Like the author wrote he buys the game and then uses a no cd crack, well what hapnes if the cd gets scratched, or broken or lost. There is no reason if you buy the product you cant do with it what you want in your own home. He was not spreading piracy by doing that. As as the guy above you wrote, he seemed to concur with me on this. Why cant it just be there for the install. You see cp in my view goes to far, at least with dongels same with my games that i play, i am not going to hunt through my case to find a game i wnat to play that is already installed on my machine just to stick a cd in there. I bought it, its mine. And you are allowed to make a back up of your software hene the personal use clause, so you have the cd put away in its case all nice and safe, and you play the game and you use the no cd crack. not a big deal. Now if these game people did not requre a cd to be put in every freaking time you want to play, there woudl not be a market for the no cd stuff. But no, they have to go to far and say nope, we want it are way all the time. Well thats nice in there fantasy world, but in reality it does not work, if people wnat to be greedy like that , the the crackers will come out and play. Just my view. So i think it is a great article, some one one sided yes, but you know eveythign has 2 sides.

  7. #7

    Re: Great article on piracy from both sides

    Quote Originally Posted by wlahc1
    I do not agree with one thing you said. How many times have dongels been discussed here. And how people dont care for them how they always have to be attached to the machine. I dont see why that is nesscary at all. Like the author wrote he buys the game and then uses a no cd crack, well what hapnes if the cd gets scratched, or broken or lost. There is no reason if you buy the product you cant do with it what you want in your own home. He was not spreading piracy by doing that. As as the guy above you wrote, he seemed to concur with me on this. Why cant it just be there for the install. You see cp in my view goes to far, at least with dongels same with my games that i play, i am not going to hunt through my case to find a game i wnat to play that is already installed on my machine just to stick a cd in there. I bought it, its mine. And you are allowed to make a back up of your software hene the personal use clause, so you have the cd put away in its case all nice and safe, and you play the game and you use the no cd crack. not a big deal. Now if these game people did not requre a cd to be put in every freaking time you want to play, there woudl not be a market for the no cd stuff. But no, they have to go to far and say nope, we want it are way all the time. Well thats nice in there fantasy world, but in reality it does not work, if people wnat to be greedy like that , the the crackers will come out and play. Just my view. So i think it is a great article, some one one sided yes, but you know eveythign has 2 sides.

    Some interesting points here.
    But there is a difference.

    Games, in general, are owned by the purchaser. You get to keep it and use it as a personal possession.

    And again, in general, sample libraries operate under a licence agreement, where the producer retains ownership of the library itself, and gives you licensed permission to use it. It may be one reason why CP is a stronger part of a business profile in most sample library development, as the producer wants to retain greater control over the distribution of 'their' product. I'm not sure the psychology of this works, in relation to the sense of ownership most purchasers get from 'owning' something valuable, but i can't neccessarily argue with the business model from the persepctive of a licensed, not owned, product.

    Regards,

    Alex.

  8. #8

    Re: Great article on piracy from both sides

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermitage59
    I'm not sure the psychology of this works, in relation to the sense of ownership most purchasers get from 'owning' something valuable, but i can't neccessarily argue with the business model from the persepctive of a licensed, not owned, product.
    Interesting thought. As silly as it may seem, the dongles I have do give me a tangible sense of having ("owning") something. I can even carry my dongles with me to studios/performances/etc as icons that represent that ownership. I don't get that same feeling from typing in some license key and hoping that my hard disk doesn't crash and take that install iteration with it...

    Doug (Hmmm, wondering when the "fake dongle" key fob fashion statement will start...)

    http://www.dougwellington.com

  9. #9

    Re: Great article on piracy from both sides

    The guy who wrote that article gets some kind of power thrill from cracking software. That's all. His words are pure blather.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Great article on piracy from both sides

    Sony (modeled after Microsoft) has the best c/p scheme, bar none (speaking of the former Sonic Foundry, not the infamous CD hack).

    This is the model everyone should be using, period. Complete and total transparency to the end user, a simple one-click authorization. For music apps, I would probably be one degree less liberal than Sony, and not allow registration without contact info. That would involve a minute's typing at most, and by making these kinds of forms autofill on subsequent installs of other products under the brand, it becomes essentially a click-through of three clicks.

    In contrast, this idea of exposing all the machinations, cutting and pasting, a la NI or Tascam, is horrendously tedious, and pretty nonsensical. At its root, it's just sloppy UI design, since these steps are totally unneccessary from a technical perspective. Backup copies of serials, response codes, et. al., are easily followed up in an email (strengthening the I.D./info connection between vendor and client).

    You want the balance, the engineered inconvenience that makes sharing a little too inconvenient and a little too risky for the legit customer to take on. I think this is the magic ticket with the Sony methodology. You know the serial number is associated with you, and you know they're watching your install count. If tricky patterns emerge, that serial will get shut down toot sweet, and you'll end up explaining yourself. That is enough to give the basically honest end user something to think about. That is all the piracy one can hope to control. Beyond that, you're just creating a cold-war situation where resources are stacking up on both sides with no tangible benefit to either one.

    This ultimately has to be an agreement between vendor and client, to work together to reduce piracy.

    On another manufacturer's website, I was called names and ridiculed recently. All this for having the audacity to remind people that SAMPLING is an artform unto itself, and that when the waveform access is restricted, much of what makes a sampling musician's toolset unique is also therefore restricted. It's fact. I'm sorry that this could cause someone whose work I'd normally respect to call me a nerd.

    The level of rhetoric is off the scale, and completely beside the point.

    I mention this because once again, I appreciate Mr. Persing's willingness to empathize with the situation from both sides. What a stark contrast this is, in comparison to some other vendors who will do anything to quash truthful discussion about business concerns. We all have business concerns.

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