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Topic: GIGA no longer crashes... now it's MOTU madness... :-(

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  1. #1

    GIGA no longer crashes... now it's MOTU madness... :-(

    Great big thanks to those of you who responded to my first post. I welcomed your advice and took it all into account as I figured out how best to proceed.

    The good news is that I have finally launched GIGA and it hasn't crashed and blue-screened in something like days... :-)

    The bad news is that now I cannot get GIGA to play nicely with my two new MOTU devices that I only bought to try and make GIGA happy... :-(

    So far, neither TASCAM tech support, MOTU tech support nor Sweetwater tech support have been able to figure out what's wrong.

    Not surprisingly, MOTU said that it was probably a "Rewire issue between GIGA and Cubase," and the last TASCAM tech support person I talked to said that he couldn't offer any advice because they only deal with TASCAM products... apparently, since there is some MOTU equipment in the mix, TASCAM feels that it is absolved from trying to figure out why its software doesn't work properly with mainstream brand-name audio gear?!?!?

    I suspect that the problem lies with the MOTU drivers, or a conflict between the MOTU and GIGA drivers, but I've been running around my system in circles for days, now, so I'm not sure of anything any more...

    Alas, I need more help. I will try to give you all as much info as possible. I will undoubtedly forget something -- please ask for any additional potentially-helpful data...

    ==========================================

    The new hardware setup:

    I now have two internal SATA hard drives in my computer.

    One drive has nothing but samples on it. The other drive is split into two large bootable partitions. I have edited the boot.ini file to allow me to select a partition each time I boot the computer.

    Each bootable partition has a freshly-installed copy of WinXP Pro SP2 on it. One partition enjoys a network connection, firewall/antivirus protection, and the company of dozens of useful software apps of various types. The other partition was tweaked according to TASCAM / musicxp.net specs, and has no network connection, and nothing on it except Giga3 and Cubase SX3.

    I've got the current (v3.12) patch of GIGA installed, so it should run on my dual-core machine. Cubase is up to v3.1.1.1.

    I also have a MOTU MIDI Express XT USB, and bought a MOTU 828mkiiUSB to use as my GSIF-2-compatible sound card/breakout box.

    2GB of memory. 3.0 GHz Pentium D.

    ==========================================

    GIGA continued to crash during its initial launch, each time it tried to build the #&)=!$%&(#$~!* QuickSound database. I got around this by disabling the rebuild-upon-launch. GIGA then launched fine, and I built up the database, using only specified folders, from within the launched program. That seems to work. So far, at least...

    ==========================================

    The MOTU drivers caused me trouble right away.

    There was some sort of strange conflict with the Dell-installed Creative Audigy2 card, such that my audio just didn't work. I noticed that all my "Default Devices" were greyed-out when I looked under Windows' Control Panel --> Sounds and Audio Devices. I could not select any card/device. Looking under Windows Device Manager, both MOTU devices had the same strange status listed under driver properties, namely "Driver is enabled but has not been started."

    Nothing I did could "start" them. Whatever that means...

    Nothing, that is, short of physically removing the Audigy card and uninstalling all of its drivers. That worked. Having disposed of its competition, the 828mkiiUSB took over as Queen audio card. I could now select default devices under Windows' Control Panel --> Sounds and Audio Devices.

    If only that made a difference... :-(

    ==========================================

    The MIDI Express XT works fine on its own, routing MIDI signals between two keyboards and four synth modules.

    The 828mkiiUSB works fine as an audio playback device with everything including Winamp, RealPlayer, CD/DVD drives, etc. The 828mkiiUSB's "Main Outs" are connected to my studio monitors. I also have a pair of headphones plugged in, set to match the "Main Outs" output. Sound comes out of both, no problem...

    Both MOTU devices work fine with Cubase. I can always hear audio through the headphones, and any audio tracks loaded up in Cubase always play through the studio monitors just fine.

    All seems well in the world . . . that is, not surprisingly, until I launch GIGA...

    ==========================================

    In short, these are my observations of odd behavior exhibited by my new setup:

    (1) In standalone mode, GIGA knows when it is receiving MIDI signals from my external keyboard [the little green port lights flash red each time I press a key, and again each time I release a key], but playing the keyboard does not trigger loaded samples... er... except *sometimes*...

    (2) While this is happening, I can play the GIGA "audition" keyboard at the bottom of the screen, one note at a time, with the mouse. When I click with the mouse, I can hear the sounds that I have loaded... but ONLY THROUGH THE HEADPHONES. Nothing goes through the Main Outs into my studio monitors. I have set the headphones output to match the Main Outs, so if sound is going through the phones, it should also be going out through the studio monitors -- but it isn't...

    (3) So then , after loading sounds in GIGA, I launch Cubase. GIGA switches into Rewire mode. I enable the Rewire channels, and create a new MIDI track. I set the track input to "All MIDI Inputs (once upon a time, "MXPXT: Sync In - Out All" would have worked fine, but now it doesn't. Don't know why, but... okay fine...) and the track output to the sound loaded in GIGA. I hit record and play the keyboard... I hear no sound, but Cubase dutifully records the keystrokes. If I then replay the MIDI track in Cubase, I will suddenly hear the GIGA sounds, as driven by the newly-recorded MIDI track... THROUGH THE STUDIO MONITORS... er... *sometimes*...

    (4) Now, if I play the GIGA audition keyboard with my mouse, I will hear the loaded sounds through the studio monitors... er... *sometimes*... The external MIDI keyboard still does not generate sounds.

    (5) I have never heard a GIGA sound come through the studio monitors when GIGA is in standalone mode -- *only* when playing a MIDI track in Cubase, in Rewire mode...

    ==========================================



    Now I'll go through the above, in greater detail.


    I start with a fresh reboot...


    Looking in Device Manager, I see the following:


    MOTU Audio MIDI:

    MFWAMIDI.sys ---> version 3.6.0.0

    "Driver is enabled and functioning properly"

    * * * * * * * * * *

    MOTUMIDI Device:

    MotuMidi.sys ---> version 1,0,1,1

    wdmaud.drv ---> version 5.1.2600.2180

    "Driver is enabled and functioning properly"

    * * * * * * * * * *

    All other MOTU drivers are "enabled and functioning properly"

    ==========================================

    Looking in Control Panel ---> Sounds and Audio Devices ---> Audio, I see:

    ... Sound Playback ---> Default Device = MOTU Main Outs (I have also tried it with "MOTU Analog," with no difference)

    ... Sound Recording ---> Default Device = MOTU Analog (I have also tried it with "MOTU Mix1," with no difference)

    ... MIDI Music Playback ---> Default Device = MXPXT: Sync In - Out All (I have also tried it with "Port 1 on MXPXT," with no difference)

    ==========================================

    Both MOTU devices are on.

    GIGA is configured for Hardware Adapter = "MOTU Audio" . . . all input and output channels are enabled.

    MIDI Port configuration is "MXPXT: Sync In - Out All ---> GigaOut: Port 1 / Control"

    ==========================================

    I launch GIGA...

    I load a nice organ .gig into channel 1 of G3Port 1.

    I play my external MIDI keyboard. All the little "MIDI" lights flash on the 4 synth modules... if I pot up those channels on my Mackie mixer (the main outs of which go to Inputs 1 and 2 on the 828mkiiUSB), I can hear the synths playing through the studio monitors. So far, so good. I pot the mixer back down, so as not to hear the external synths...

    As I play the external keyboard, GIGA does nothing -- the little green port lights remain unchanged, and there is no activity in the channel 1 bar graph.

    Then I click on various keys on the GIGA "audition" keyboard with my mouse... Now the little green port light "1" flashes red once when I press down on the mouse button, and once again when I release the mouse button... The channel 1 bar graph lights flashes up and then drops back down. No sound through my studio monitors, although I can hear the organ sound in my headphones.

    * * * * * * * * * *

    I launch Cubase, by pressing the "launch sequencer" button from within GIGA. GIGA switches into Rewire mode.

    I enable the Rewire channels, and create a new MIDI track. I set the track input to "All MIDI Inputs" and the track output to the organ sound loaded in GIGA. I "record enable" the track.

    I play the external keyboard, and I hear no sound. I see three bar graphs moving in Cubase (one in the Transport Panel, one to the right of where it says "MIDI 01," and one in the "Inspector," next to the "Channel" heading), so Cubase knows that I'm playing the keyboard.

    I switch to the GIGA window, and play the external keyboard. The little green port light "1" flashes red once when I press down on any key, and once again when I release the key. No activity in the Channel 1 bar graph. No sound, either in headphones or studio monitors. [Here and throughout, when I play my second external keyboard, the same thing happens, only the "Port2" light flashes red]

    I go back to Cubase, and open the "Key Editor" for my MIDI track. When I play the external keyboard, I can see the corresponding keys greying-out in the Cubase "audition" keyboard that runs up the left side of the screen. The Cubase "audition" keyboard keys also "grey-out" when I click on them with my mouse. In either case, I can hear no sound, in either headphones or studio monitors.

    I hit record and play the keyboard... I hear no sound, but Cubase dutifully records the keystrokes.

    Then I replay the newly-recorded MIDI track in Cubase. Suddenly I hear the organ sound playing through both headphones AND the STUDIO MONITORS.

    Quickly, I switch to the GIGA window... as the Cubase track plays, I can see the corresponding keys greying-out in the GIGA "audition" keyboard at the bottom of the screen. The Cubase MIDI track finishes playing.

    Now I play my external keyboard again.... once again, the little green port light "1" flashes red once when I press down on any key, and once again when I release the key. No activity in the Channel 1 bar graph. No sound, either in headphones or studio monitors.

    I can play the GIGA "audition" keyboard with my mouse, but I can still only hear the sound through my headphones, not the studio monitors.

    In the same Cubase project, I create an audio track, into which I import a .wav file. *This* plays through both headphones and studio monitors without a problem.

    ==========================================

    I close GIGA and Cubase.

    I go into Control Panel ---> Sounds and Audio Devices ---> Audio, and change MIDI Music Playback ---> Default Device to "Port 1 on MXPXT"

    I relaunch GIGA, and change the MIDI Port configuration to "Port 1 on MXPXT ---> GigaOut: Port 1 / Control"

    I load a nice organ .gig into channel 1 of G3Port 1.

    Unlike when I had "MXPXT: Sync In - Out All" as my default, playing the keyboard now makes the little green port light "1" flash red right from the start. Still no activity in the Channel 1 bar graph. No sound, either in headphones or studio monitors.

    I can play the GIGA "audition" keyboard with my mouse, but I can still only hear the sound through my headphones, not the studio monitors.


    * * * * * * * * * *

    I launch Cubase, and follow all of the steps listed above.

    Everything goes exactly the same way, except for one major difference. As before, when I played the Cubase-recorded MIDI track back, I could suddenly hear the organ through both headphones and studio monitors.

    Now, though, when I play the GIGA "audition" keyboard with my mouse, I can hear the organ sound through both headphones and studio monitors (before it was headphones-only).

    The external keyboard still does nothing, other than make the Port 1 green light flash red.

    ==========================================

    Now I relaunched GIGA, after disabling Rewire functionality in the Configuration Manager.

    I load the organ again. Playing the external keyboard does nothing other than make the "Port 1" light flash red. No sound. No activity in the Channel 1 bar graph.

    I can play the "audition" keyboard with my mouse, and hear sounds... in my headphones only...

    * * * * * * * * * *

    I launch Cubase, and create a new project.

    I create a new MIDI track, setting the track input to "All MIDI Inputs" and the track output to "GigaOut: Port 1 / Control."

    Playing my external keyboard makes no sound through the studio monitors, but I can hear the organ in my headphones.

    I switch to the GIGA window, and play the keyboard. The little green port light "1" flashes once when I press down on any key, and once again when I release the key. Now, for the first time, I can see the corresponding keys in the GIGA "audition" keyboard "grey out" as I play them on my external keyboard. The Channel 1 bar graph flashes aloing with my playing. It would be "perfect," except that there's no sound going through my studio monitors... just headphones...

    I go back to Cubase, and open the "Key Editor" for my MIDI track. When I play the external keyboard, I can see the corresponding keys greying-out in the Cubase "audition" keyboard that runs up the left side of the screen. AND I can hear the organ sound... but only through my headphones... Same thing when I click on the Cubase "audition" keyboard keys with my mouse -- I hear the organ in my phones, but not in my monitors.

    I hit record and play the keyboard... Now I can hear the organ notes that I'm playing in my headphones as I play them (in fact, the next-to-last note that I played got stuck "on," but I'm not far enough along to worry about that kind of thing just yet...)

    Cubase recorded the keystrokes.

    Now when I replay the newly-recorded MIDI track in Cubase, I can hear the organ in my headphones, but not through the studio monitors any more!!!

    I return to the GIGA window... as the Cubase track plays, I can see the corresponding keys greying-out in the GIGA "audition" keyboard at the bottom of the screen. The Cubase MIDI track finishes playing.

    Now I play my external keyboard again.... once again, the little green port light "1" flashes once when I press down on any key, and once again when I release the key. The GIGA "audition" keys grey-out" when I play. The Channel 1 bar graph flashes along with my playing. I can hear the organ in my headphones, but not through the studio monitors.

    ==========================================

    So... GIGA *always* receives MIDI data when I play my external keyboard, but only *sometimes* does it play the corresponding sounds.

    And when GIGA does play the sounds, it usually-but-not-always plays it only through the headphones, not the studio monitors. Except when it does. Even though Cubase (and every other app) plays through the studio monitors without a problem...

    ==========================================

    What in the world is going on here? Does anyone have any idea?!?!?

    I didn't realize that the MIDI Express XT USB is running on what seems to be a "version 1" driver... it looks like the 828mkiiUSB is running on a set of firewire drivers (they all have "FW" in their names)... maybe they haven't gotten all of the USB kinks out yet?

    Is anyone else using GIGA with the USB MOTU products? Are you running, trouble-free?

    er, um... [weakly] "help...???"

    Alan

  2. #2
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    Re: GIGA no longer crashes... now it's MOTU madness... :-(

    Alan,

    Sorry if you have already addressed this - but I did not see it in your post. Also, I hate to beat a dead horse since a number of my posts have suggested this solution- but it has solved some previous similar problems, and it bit me soundly... Also, it had appeared that this solution was a problem between Giga and RME, but recently other midi drivers have had the same problem with Giga. So here goes:

    A problem was solved in an earlier thread, posted by Dave (delamein). He lists the solution, which is an easy patch to the Windows Registry. Change "midi" to "midi1", or "midi2" as per:

    http://www.soundsonics.net/Midisolut.doc

    BTW, with regard to your other "partition" post. It is highly unlikely that Giga can actually _tell_ that it is on a partition, since the line between hardware and software gets very fuzzy at that point. I would be _very_ surprised if it stops Giga from working. It _will_ have a performance impact, and it does make sense that Tascam recommends to have the program on one physical drive, with samples on another physical drive.

    Good luck!

    --Dirk

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