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Topic: Loading Stacked Instruments Using Midi Commands

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  1. #1

    Loading Stacked Instruments Using Midi Commands

    Hi,

    I hope you guys can help. I'm trying to load stacked instruments using midi commands (bank and patch commands) to switch between different samples.

    So far example I have stacked instrument 1 which consists of 3 samples (X, Y and Z). I want to be able to send a command to Giga using my sequencer (Sibelius) that will allow me to load stacked instrument 1 on a channel, but then send another message to switch to a single sample W.

    So far I've been able to use bank and patch commands in Sibelius to load a single sample (and change that single sample) to a different one but not be able to load a stacked instrument in this way.

    I've tried assigning a single bank and patch number to stacked instruments but this doesn't seem to allow me to load it to a midi channel using Sibelius.

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks, Xander

  2. #2
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    Re: Loading Stacked Instruments Using Midi Commands

    The whole idea of Stacked instruments is to NOT use Bank/Patch changes. If you want to use Bank/Patch changes, don’t stack. Just have the instruments loaded and send the patch change on the channel.

    If you want to stack, set it up for keyswitch or some other controller.

  3. #3
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    Re: Loading Stacked Instruments Using Midi Commands

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    The whole idea of Stacked instruments is to NOT use Bank/Patch changes. If you want to use Bank/Patch changes, don’t stack. Just have the instruments loaded and send the patch change on the channel.

    If you want to stack, set it up for keyswitch or some other controller.
    Not entirely true-sometimes you just want to stack for the sake of stacking...2 patches sounding from one midi message-but it's clear that that's not what Xander's after here. i.e:

    In this context, bill's correct. Bank/Patch changes are redundant if you're loading stacked instruments to switch articulations. There's no need.
    However:
    I believe bank #8192 is the "reserved bank for stacked instruments", check yourgs/system config. to be sure. Send that bank, and whatever patch # shows in the instrument loader pane. I can't remember ever having succeeded in this task, but I don't think my attempts were very thorough.

    Let us know the results!
    Belbin

  4. #4

    Re: Loading Stacked Instruments Using Midi Commands

    Actually I have to use stacked instruments because I want to play the samples simultaneously on one midi channel. For example, I use 3 different strings samples to sound as 1 instrument (because none of the sounds are good enough individually), but then other times I want to switch to using a single sample on that channel (because it IS good enough!). I scorewrite with sibelius in a set up I prefer where one midi channel represents one player who may double instruments. One of these players might be a keyboard player who uses a harp patch one minute, but then next switches to a patch that would be comprised of 3 individual instruments. Using a keyswitch won't help me in this instance I believe.

    I found this worked using the dedicated channel that gigastudio used as a default. It stopped working the moment I set the bank/patch number myself.

    Thanks for your contributions.

    Xander

  5. #5
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    Re: Loading Stacked Instruments Using Midi Commands

    You might also want to explore linking the MIDI ports. You could, for instance, link port 1,2 and 3. Put instruments X, Y and Z on the same channel in each port, and they will play together.

  6. #6
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    Re: Loading Stacked Instruments Using Midi Commands

    I have the opposite question: how can you load and unload instruments to the stack using external MIDI program change commands?

  7. #7
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    Re: Loading Stacked Instruments Using Midi Commands

    Quote Originally Posted by bovius
    I have the opposite question: how can you load and unload instruments to the stack using external MIDI program change commands?
    that would be really cool if it were possible.

    Maybe next version!

    Belbin

  8. #8

    Re: Loading Stacked Instruments Using Midi Commands

    Quote Originally Posted by bovius
    I have the opposite question: how can you load and unload instruments to the stack using external MIDI program change commands?
    Can't be done. But you can control the volumes of the nested instruments individually by assigning the volumes to midi CC controls.

  9. #9

    Re: Loading Stacked Instruments Using Midi Commands

    Quote Originally Posted by belbin
    I believe bank #8192 is the "reserved bank for stacked instruments", check yourgs/system config. to be sure. Send that bank, and whatever patch # shows in the instrument loader pane.
    That's right. In Sibelius' Mixer it asks for bank high and bank low. These are 64 and 00 respectively (64 x 128 = 8192).

    I own Sibelius 3, and I've found that its program changes can be a bit flaky. Hopefully Sib 4 is improved.

    Anyway, you would typically select a note and type "Ctrl-T" to add technique text. Then type "~P8192,0 Esc Esc". The tilde "~" makes the following text invisible on the printed score. "P" means program change. 8192,0 is bank 8192, program 0. You hit Esc to get out of text entry mode.

    On a following note add "~P8192,1" or "~P8192,2" to select other stacked instruments.

    Let us know if this works!

  10. #10
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    Re: Loading Stacked Instruments Using Midi Commands

    Thank you for the advices. These is my conclusion:

    I cannot use the instrument stacks provided by GigaStudio. Indeed I can load/unload complete stacks using banknr #8192 but I cannot change the contents of the stack by MIDI commands. Instead I will use the same approach as in my previous Soundblaster Audigy program: I will emulate stacking by using different ports and replicating the external MIDI channels to multiple internal channels. In my previous program I used dynamic emulation to fully use the limited space (2 ports of each 16 channels). In the case of GigaStudio I will try static emulation, by assigning 4 fixed midi channels X 8 ports to each of the 3 organ manuals and pedal. This should be enough polyphony for emulating the largest church organs. I will have to send 32 Note on/off commands for each organ keystroke so I hope I will not get into latency problems.

    Kees.

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