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Topic: Dongle thread summary

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Tom Crowning's Avatar
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    Dongle thread summary

    The thread 'Anyone tried Yellow Tools' Independence?' (see
    http://northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42676
    developed more or less into some kind of poll 'do you like dongles or not'.

    I post a summary here in a new thread so it'll not be burried down in some
    other thread, so developers don't have a reason to say 'never seen this one'.

    I've made a simple count on how much of the threads participants think
    dongles are good and how much don't like dongles. I've left out the ones
    who either didn't make a clear statement or would buy a library even when they
    don't like dongles that much.

    So far 6 users are pro dongle, 11 users are against dongles.
    I know this number of participants isn't statistically relevant, but I think it
    shows the interesting tendency that a company introducing dongles could
    probably lose 50 % of their potential buyers (okay, the special kind of buyers
    spending some of their time here in the forums ) just by dongles.

    Tom

    PS: it's TIME for the sound develop companies to sit together for some kind
    of 'dongle standard' so we users would only need one single dongle for all
    of our libraries no matter which brand.
    You wouldn't want to change the power outlet in your kitchen just because
    your better half has bought a new toaster that uses its own proprietary
    'security' design and isn't compatible with your coffee machine!

  2. #2

    Thumbs up Re: Dongle thread summary

    Thank you for the new thread. We are very interested in this poll. As we stated on the previous thread, for us, it's a question of financial feasibility. Having products put into players is a very costly venture. Maybe every one is fine with open source? That would save us the worry

    Best,
    FB

    Bela D Media

    PS. Alan if your out there, you need to check out Tom's artwork. Very nice work Tom. Alan is an artist as well. He designs all of our DVDs, ads and the look of the 'coming soon' new beladmedia.com.

  3. #3

    Re: Dongle thread summary

    Quote Originally Posted by Bela D Media
    Thank you for the new thread. We are very interested in this poll. As we stated on the previous thread, for us, it's a question of financial feasibility. Having products put into players is a very costly venture. Maybe every one is fine with open source? That would save us the worry

    Best,
    FB

    Bela D Media
    The world is much bigger than Northern Sound Source. Check out forums where there are many potential users and less developers. There are plenty of people who don't buy dongle products but will chastise anyone who asks for a serial # or crack. Go to the Cakewalk forums or DigiFreq.
    I wanted Yellow tool products at one time until they went with the dongle.

    Samplers players do seem to have an advantage. They seem to be more user friendly to an inexperienced user.

    Dongled software seems to be the first priority in cracking.

    Dongles are hardware and eventually hardware fails.

  4. #4

    Re: Dongle thread summary

    I don't quite like the idea of dongles too. Been trying hard to have a "dongle-free" environment.... well, only couldn't evade Samplitude.

    It's still ok now I have one dongle stuck into my machine, but I really found it ridiculous needing to buy USB hub so you can home your 20+ dongles!

    It's like when you head to work in a theatre.... woow..... you need different working passes when you go in the restroom, the greenroom, the meeting room, the canteen, and the car park! IMHO, ONE SINGLE working pass is nice, as like Tom said.

    Cheers,
    Frankie
    Dell Precision T3500 (Xeon W3520, 12GB RAM) / Windows 7 x64 / Sonar 8 / VE Pro / WIVI 2.3 / Kontakt 4 / G-Player 1.2

  5. #5

    Re: Dongle thread summary

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Blaske
    Nice, that is, until it fails. Then, you're COMPLETELY dead in the water.
    Oh man, that's so true, and I so overlooked too!

    Guess no dongle is better than!

    Cheers,
    Frankie
    Dell Precision T3500 (Xeon W3520, 12GB RAM) / Windows 7 x64 / Sonar 8 / VE Pro / WIVI 2.3 / Kontakt 4 / G-Player 1.2

  6. #6

    Re: Dongle thread summary

    This is a diffficult one. I'm not fond of dongles for all the usual reasons, hardware failure, bits hanging off the box, although i understand that an internal USB card has been developed to keep everything inside.
    However, I can appreciate the desire on the part of developers, who having invested a great deal of time, money, and effort in building good products, are faced with an evergrowing tide of piracy that threatens a return on their efforts. This debate will go on, and not be easily solved, but i suspect that until there is a better way of limiting the opportunity for theft, dongles are probably still the best of bad decisions in the fight to sell products, and not have them taken away.

    I'm not in favour of dongles, so add me to your list, but the alternative is less clear and this problem is going to be hard to solve.

    There are many who feel affronted by dongles, as somehow a statement from software companies that everyone is potentially guilty, but i don't think this is the case, and it seems it's the same voices that also protest software and sample developers are making a lot of money and profit. I don't think this is the case either, because any company that constantly R and D's new ideas and systems are spending money to do so, directly from those self same profits. In fact it's my opinion, that after expenses are taken into account, many developers take home the equivalent of an ordinary salary or less, and much of their effort is unpaid, with many 'free' hours based on a passion to build better and better products, and keep up with the market. I've had a small business, and know just how hard it is to keep everything going, and how many hours unpaid i worked, particularly in the beginning, often paying the staff, and realising they would take home more than I did.

    We only have to look at the investment that went into the facilities at VSL (just an example) with a custom built studio, and a large team of professionals working to bring big, complex, tonally excellent libraries to fruition.
    Their recoup of investment is expected, and i would hope they make enough, (as i do for any decent and skilled developer with integrity), to not only cover their costs, and make a profit, but have the means to continue the R and D, and build even better products that we can use. I don't know how much the developers lose to piracy, i suspect it's a fair sum between them all. And i also hear the voices that protest the price of this product or that. But if these guys, especially the smaller developers, go out of business because the sales don't match the investment, then we get nothing. And i mention smaller developers, because they often provide a unique product or products that aren't always contained, or are as specific, as the larger mainstream libraries. They run a greater risk of 'here or not', because there is a minimum operable investment in equipment, that still runs to considerable sums of money. So if their product is traded free, the losses of income will be much harder to absorb, and could be the difference between swim or drown.

    I've rambled on a bit with this, but i hear a lot about companies who are perceived or publicised by users as somehow behaving irresponsibly or belligerently because they use a physical system of copy protection. Yes, it's one form of CP, and there are others, but ultimately i find it hard to believe that any developer (with maybe the odd exception) would welcome any criticism of their system, if a better way could be found that both protected their future business viabilty, and left the honest buyer with a sense of satisfaction and inclusive integrity in that developer, or developers.

    regards,

    Alex.

    p.s. I agree with the idea of one 'super dongle' that would hold the licenses for several companies at once, but i don't think we're at the stage of cooperation, shared decency, and integrity for every developer that would make this a reality.
    And if one dongle seems too risky, how about a box on the desk (usb) that would hold your licenses, with triple redundancy, self powered, battery backup, archive cartridges?
    If something in the box fails, you still have licenses on solid state (non moving part) archive cartridge, and can repair the box itself or purchase a second one. Plug the license cartridge in. Back up and running. Box has to be plugged in for the programs to work, with cartridge inserted.

    Make the box the same size as say, a Roland sound canvas,(showing my age) and it's robust enough to travel as well.

  7. #7

    Re: Dongle thread summary

    I sure will make an exception for Samplitude as well, as i made one for YellowTools being a good compagny and i didn't want to punish them because they're are a small buseness too, but i find the dongle intrusive like all form of copy protections btw. The only reason i'm puting up whit this is out of respect for the develloper but i dream of the day i will buy a software and use it, you know, just use it , one can always dream.

    I like the idea that in case my hard drive crash i don't have to go on the internet and go over all the lib. to activat them, so that's a really good point for the dongle + the compagny could die and i would still be able to use my software, but i'm always afraid to loose the damn thing and i sure don't want my pc to look like a freaking chrismas tree either, so one dongle for all is a great adea.

    I'm starting to lean towards the dongle ''if'' i can put all of them on 1 dongle, that way you're responsable for it like anything els, but there's still a problem, what if it dies, because it is harware and it could happen. This is all making me feel kind of insecure and who want's to buy something that make you feel bad? I think the compagny should think about that and give use a second one just in case, i think we deserve it .

    The irony is that all those protections makes elegal software kind of attractive and that's exactly the opposite effect it should have, because then you don't have to worry about loosing your dongle, ect...
    Sorry about that but i was shock when i got my first lib and realize i had to ask for a permit to use it....Sorry for the rant,...i feel better now .

    At the end, i don't know what's best , 1 dongle for all whit a couple of back up would be fair if you ask me.

  8. #8

    Re: Dongle thread summary

    There has been a lot of discussion about the use of dongles over at the Nuendo forum. Most people don't like or want them....! However, I wouldn't mind provided that it was possible to get some sort of "down time" insurance. In other words, if there is a failure one could download a temporary licence to use all the products on that licence until a new dongle was issued.
    I believe that this is possible with iLok, but not yet with Synchrosoft.

    D

  9. #9

    Re: Dongle thread summary

    Quote Originally Posted by Daryl
    There has been a lot of discussion about the use of dongles over at the Nuendo forum. Most people don't like or want them....! However, I wouldn't mind provided that it was possible to get some sort of "down time" insurance. In other words, if there is a failure one could download a temporary licence to use all the products on that licence until a new dongle was issued.
    I believe that this is possible with iLok, but not yet with Synchrosoft.

    D
    I think that would be a really good idea. It would make people less uncomfortable about dongle use. Also, I think that there are good and bad parts to having just one dongle for everything and having multiple dongles for everything, but clearly a temporary downloadable license would be great for all.

    I think another thing that would make people complain a lot less about dongles is if they were crack proof. I've heard many more Cubase/Nuendo users complain about dongles than I have Logic users. Part of this I tribute to the fact that there are just more Cubase/Nuendo users than there are Logic users. But I also think a big part of it is that there is no dongle crack for Logic (or at least not one that I'm aware off). Why use a dongle when you could buy your software (so you aren't a pirate) but then download a crack so you don't have to worry about your dongle?
    Tim

  10. #10

    Re: Dongle thread summary

    Hi Guys -

    Please excuse my basic question, but something I've always wondered.

    Right now I only have one dongle, which is for Cubase. My DAW only has one USB port. If I get more software requiring more dongles, no problem, I get six USB port converter hub. Is it a problem though when DAW needs to access two dongles at exact same time when they originate from the same USB port?

    Thanks.

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