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Topic: Why do we need to belabor the obvious?

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  1. #1

    Why do we need to belabor the obvious?

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    Every time some pol screws up, the other side feels honor bound to out some pol on the other side, just to show the up, or try to divert attention. And the same happens here in this forum. Somebody makes a 'gotcha' post, someone else has to find a reverse gotcha. This gets boring after a while, more important, it causes the thread to lose focus - which may be the point of the diversion, but doesn't help settle any disagreements..

    Excuse me, but - I'm a registered Democrat (and I'm loaded...) Does that mean for one hot second that I believe they are any less corrupt, any more honest, or have any more right to tell me what I can or can not do than the Republicans?

    (in case sarcasm wasn't sufficiently obvious) Of course not! (I kept this line clean)

    All it means is this bunch of lying, corrupt politicians claims to be justifying its paycheck by doing more things that I agree with than the other bunch of lying, corrupt politicians. And in point of fact, they probably actually aren't doing those things at all...

    It doesn't matter what side they're on (non-US citizens, it doesn't matter what country they're from,) they're pols - they're lying to you. Even when there is no reason to, they simply do it on autopilot, like brushing your teeth, driving to work, lying through your teeth, all in a day's work. So when pol x is caught in a scandal, there's no need to point out that pol y on the other side is also in a similar one - assume it. There is ALWAYS some stupid pol with his butt in a sling. "My" side as well as "your" side. (Do you really believe that, as well? That "your" side will somehow take care of some need because you are on their side? Bzzzt - sorry, they will just ask you for money - the billions they've porked away just aren't enough, and what's a poor starving powermonger to do?)

    Work for what you want from your life, not what they want, because they do not have your best interests at heart.

    Oh there are good, honest, hard-working politicians that do care about what happens to their constituents, but these are as rare as hens teeth - I have known one on 63 years, perhaps two (I'm not sure of the second one.)

    So statistically, you really should err on the side of caution and assume they are scum until proven otherwise. By definition, those who wish power over others are unfit to hold it. When dealing with pols, do not expect a miracle.
    Dasher
    -------
    It's all about the music - really. I keep telling myself that...

  2. #2

    Re: Why do we need to belabor the obvious?

    I agree, for me support for any politician or party generally boils down to supporting a cretinous jackalope who pays lip service to at least some things I agree with as opposed to supporting the cretinous jackalope that doesn't even pay lip service to a single thing I believe in.

  3. #3

    Re: Why do we need to belabor the obvious?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredProgGH
    I agree, for me support for any politician or party generally boils down to supporting a cretinous jackalope who pays lip service to at least some things I agree with as opposed to supporting the cretinous jackalope that doesn't even pay lip service to a single thing I believe in.

    Sadly, that's very true, especially if a person isn't a Dem or Repub. In my opinion, at least these days, there isn't much difference between the two parties. They both want to take our money and redistribute it to other people. The Dems want to take away our ability to "defend" ourselves from the government or anybody else for that matter, and the current Republicans want us to believe that with them in power, we have no reason to worry about our rights. They are equally disturbing ways of thinking, and very similar.

    And as soon as the Democrats want to take away things away, such as guns, the Republicans start complaining that our freedoms and liberties are being taken away; yet the Republicans have no problems with taking our money and trying to tell people what they can and can't do even within the law, thereby, taking away many more freedoms. It makes the Republicans equally hypocritical. I could do without both.
    "They get what they vote for." PaulR

  4. #4

    Re: Why do we need to belabor the obvious?

    Distributing "your money" is what it takes to have a society, Danimal. The broad difference is that the Republicans want to take it to kill people and the Democrats want to take it to help people.

    But there's a lot of overlap. We have the best government money can buy.

  5. #5

    Re: Why do we need to belabor the obvious?

    I honestly believe that there are differences between the potential corruption between the two major parties.

    1. PREMISE
    If the premise of one group is to make the rich richer by drowning government in the bathtub, and the premise of the other group is to help the poor to be less poor though good governence, you are going to get very different results, based on who is in power. The first group will appoint cronies who will dismantle positive services, while the second group will strive to appoint skilled people to make the services effective.

    2. SCOPE
    Every group has its rotten apples, but there is a difference between a single apple with rot and a fungus that infects everything it touches. Lets say you pluck a guy off the street and put him in public office. Maybe he's greedy and weak. He accepts gifts that he shouldn't. He steals pencils from the office. So far the costs are low. Once he starts voting for the bills pushed by his patrons, things can start to cost us.

    But that's retail corruption. How about wholesale corruption? Let's say you put a guy from the oil and defense industries in charge? He starts introducing whole bills written by his biddies that amount to huge giveaways. He gets no-bid contracts for his friends. He starts a war that will cost a good TRILLION dollars from start to end, not to mention costing tens of thousands of lives. To fund this massive pocket lining, they borrow, borrow and borrow - ripping off us and our kids.

    There's corruption, and then there's CORRUPTION.

    3. AUTHORITARIANISM
    Secrecy. Lying. Fear mongering. Shadow government. Beligerent nationalism. Unnecessary war. Claims of unlimited executive power. Claims of the right to torture. Suspension of Habeus Corpus. Prison camps. Illegal wiretaps. This goes beyond corruption an into the realm of the evil.

    Somehow I don't see Gore or Kerry pulling this crap. We need somebody who fights for the priciples of the Constitution, instead of an administration that tries to undermine those principles at every turn.

    CONCLUSION
    All men are weak. Every group has bad apples. Wherever there is power, there is the likelyhood of some corrption. There is also the risk that the powerful will fall in love with their power and become despots.

    But we should not confuse small time corruption with big time graft. We should not confuse governance with authoritarianism. We should not give in to fear and let the power-lovers take away our rights.

    It's time that we elect good people who believe that they can make government efficient and beneficial for all. I don't believe that the Republican leadership has many people who fit this description.

    -JF

  6. #6

    Re: Why do we need to belabor the obvious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Batzdorf
    Distributing "your money" is what it takes to have a society, Danimal. .
    I disagree. But if it is, then how much is too much, Nick? When do you draw the line at either a Republican or Democrat taking your money? How much will you give?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Batzdorf
    The broad difference is that the Republicans want to take it to kill people and the Democrats want to take it to help people.
    I'm off to the bathroom to vomit up the chicken I just ate. If you really believe what you just wrote, then I'll tell you that it's currently 70 degrees here in North Dakota, and not 30 below zero.

    Incidentally, what is "helpful" about taking money from a poor person (or anyone for that matter) and giving it to someone else? If someone can't pay their bills (basic utility bills or feed themselves.... not credit card debt, etc.), what good does it do to take their money and send it to someone who can't pay their bills either? If you or anybody else has got a real answer for that, then I'll be pretty surprised. What's funny (in a sick sort of way) is that the money that Democrats supposedly want to "give to poor people" is taken from the same people they supposedly want to give it to. Wow. And that's supposedly the "intellectual" party. Brilliant. Of course, taking it from ANYONE is wrong, much less a stupid idea, but that doesn't seem to be an issue with them.

    P.S. Sh*t. All this talk about money just reminded me that I owe you about $20 I think. I'll send it out.
    "They get what they vote for." PaulR

  7. #7

    Re: Why do we need to belabor the obvious?

    Quote Originally Posted by JonFairhurst
    Somehow I don't see Gore or Kerry pulling this crap.
    Oh no. Not YOU TOO!!!!! AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRGGHHH!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by JonFairhurst
    I don't believe that the Republican leadership has many people who fit this description.
    -JF
    Which is why we need Ted Kennedy, right? Oh my.
    "They get what they vote for." PaulR

  8. #8

    Re: Why do we need to belabor the obvious?

    Danimal,

    You've focussed on the money side of things, rather than the authoritarian side. Okay, let's look at that:

    * Tax rates will stay about the same, no matter what - unless you're very rich, and the Republicans are in charge, in which case the percentage that you will pay will be less than what us working stiffs pay. (They want zero inheritance tax for the super rich, and zero capital gains tax - in other words those who sit on their butts don't pay taxes, while those who work do.)

    * We pay more than $400B per year for the military. Before the Iraq war, we were prepared for the unknown. Now we're paying an additional $200B per year for Iraq, and we are stretched thin. With Bush it's pay more, get less.

    * Look at the efficiency of the money spent on the war. What took them so long to get body armor to the troops. They are mostly efficient at getting money to Haliburton subsidiaries.

    * Look at Katrina. We pay for disaster relief, and look what the cronies did. Again, pay more, get less.

    * Look at the jobs being exported overseas. Look at the trade deficit. Look at the national debt being held by foreign banks. Do you ever hear the Republicans make a stink. No! We get delusional State of the Union Addresses about how everything is hunky dory.

    Again, I'm not claiming that every Democrat is great. Sure, you can point to Dems you don't like.

    I want my money to pay for defense, not offense. I want my money to ensure that kids don't go hungry. I want my money to ensure that we are prepared for disasters. I want my money spent efficiently.

    I don't want my money buying caviar for the aristocracy.

    -JF

  9. #9

    Re: Why do we need to belabor the obvious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernstinen
    How about shotguns? Cheney's cost $28,000. Seriously.


    Ern
    Shooting your friend in the face and lodging birdshot in his heart? ...Priceless.

    -JF

  10. #10

    Re: Why do we need to belabor the obvious?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nick Batzdorf
    Distributing "your money" is what it takes to have a society, Danimal.
    I disagree.
    Then where should the money come from? Or would you rather we simply have complete anarchy?

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