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Topic: Cartoon rows

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  1. #1

    Cartoon rows

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    Holy Prophet Hazrat MUHAMMAD (PBUH) and other cartoons
    Protests have spread across the Muslim world over the publication in Europe of cartoons of the Holy Prophet Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH).
    The row intensified on Wednesday when France Soir, alongside the 12 original cartoons, printed a new drawing on its front page showing Buddhist, Jewish,
    Muslim and Christian holy figures sitting on a cloud, with the caption "Don't worry Muhammad, we've all been caricatured here.
    This thing will start aging dispute between muslims and EU. I strongly condemn these offensive cartoons. what will be end of this situation?

  2. #2

    Re: Cartoon rows

    Quote Originally Posted by xpcommon
    Holy Prophet Hazrat MUHAMMAD (PBUH) and other cartoons
    Protests have spread across the Muslim world over the publication in Europe of cartoons of the Holy Prophet Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH).
    The row intensified on Wednesday when France Soir, alongside the 12 original cartoons, printed a new drawing on its front page showing Buddhist, Jewish,
    Muslim and Christian holy figures sitting on a cloud, with the caption "Don't worry Muhammad, we've all been caricatured here.
    This thing will start aging dispute between muslims and EU. I strongly condemn these offensive cartoons. what will be end of this situation?
    And even more offensive is the belligerent response.

    Two of the strongest obvious bonds that holds secular societies together is the rule of law, and the freedom of speech. Religion is just one type of structure that societies and the governments that represent those communities must deal with. It is NOT the only method of personal principle, and there are many in the world who can be civilised and take responsiblity for themselves and their fellow human beings without having to resort to a 'higher' being. Like it or not, religion, a man made structure, and not to be confused with belief, is by historical fact more responsible for the death of innocents than any other reason.
    The cartoons are tacky and tasteless, and that's just my opinion.

    And the fact i can have an opinion is a direct result of the pain of growth in history that has bought civilised human beings to this point. Every response i've seen, either in Media or on the web, from those whose belief is Islam has been threatening, with little or no regard for the rule of law. Every European in those comments has been guilty, according to Muslims, of compliance in some perceived persecution of a faith that has told the planet they cannot disagree with Islam's basic tenet, fundamentalism. There is proof for this too, in the deafening silence from the alleged moderates in Islam towards those who continue to kill other human beings in the name of their religion. With poor intelligence, and a reluctance on the part of the Muslim community to report those who incite others to violence, you show the world that Islam is, in your opinion, above the rule of law, particularly in secular countries. That may acceptable to you, but it's most certainly not for the rest of us who CAN live in a civilised way in communities and countries of mixed faith, culture, and race.
    And let's take this further. When a country or community indulges in murder on behalf of their faith, and the members of that faith mumble distaste quietly in case their fellow religous members disapprove of them, or worse, use the 'actions' of other governments to justify that murder, then don't be surprised if the rest of the planet perceives the followers of that faith as extremist, and untrustworthy with the lives of their fellow human beings.
    It's the same with the gross land theft in the West Bank, or the funds that support that illegal and immoral activity in the name of fundamentalism.
    Every religion, again, a man made structure, thinks it is right. I've read the Koran to understand what Muslims use as a foundation of principle, the same as i've read the 'holy' books of other faiths. I do so as an atheist who objectively formed a method of principle in my behaviour towards others who have religion as the cornerstone of their life.

    Islam is in the frame at the moment, and in the large, you have yourselves to blame. Jihad or Fatwa may be an effective tool of persuasion in Islam, but it's murder to the rest of civilised humanity. We don't like the actions of governments who commit crimes in our name, look after their own business interests and cruelly stamp on others with weapons, imposing their lifestyle on others no matter how willing or unwilling they may be. And because we have freedom of speech, we get to talk about it, and protest. Try that in Iran, or Syria, or Egypt, or Indonesia, etc. The application of Sharia law, an interpretation of Islam that benefits those in charge, and reduces others to misery or torture, specifically prohibits questions from the masses. I remember the student protests in Iran when the young tried to ask for more freedoms and openness in their lives. They were murdered, tortured, and brutally supressed by the religious police who, as the images of the time showed, thoroughly enjoyed inflicting the maximum pain on innocents, because they had the 'power' to do so.
    And i've also heard and read from 'leading muslims' that Islam respects other religions, and doesn't mock those religions or their deities.
    A lot of rubbish.
    Try reading a newspaper or website based in Syria, or Saudi Arabia, and there are many derisory cartoons and illustrations condemning christianity and their God, Judaism and their God, Hindu, Buddhism, etc.
    The only dispute that continues in the cartoon saga, is Fundamentalist Islam's determination to make the rest of us shut up, and not question what is, by fact, an oppressive system that has little to do with freedom and tolerance and everything to do control.
    This dispute will end when followers of all religions deal with the extremists in their midsts, and develop a clear understanding that we don't all believe the same things you do, and your god is no more relevant to some of us than the price of eggs in the local supermarket.

    I think the cartoons are tacky, as i said, but i also think those organisations in many countries in the EU and the Middle East who showed these cartoons and follow on illustrations should NOT apologise, or move one centimetre from the established secular principal of freedom of speech, and rejection of any type of religious censorship in any way shape or form.

    Now, do your worst, trundling out all the usual excuses why i'm a defiler, and should be fatwa'd or jihaded, or worse. The catholics did the same in the dark days of European history, and the Judaic shamans (priests) did the same in roman times when anyone they perceived as a troublemaker looked like daring to defy them, so Islam won't be the first.
    I don't care, because i'm thoroughly sick of the followers of any religion, including Islam, trying to introduce censorship (read influence) into government or the laws of secular countries. I will defend your right to disagree with me, and voice your opinion, however strongly. In a free and open society, we're allowed to do that.


    Alex,
    atheist, and thoroughly civilised human being.

    Voltaire....
    'I may not like what you say, but i will defend to the death your right to say it.'

  3. #3

    Re: Cartoon rows

    This also has more to do with the perceptions of the offended. Lots of sound bites of religious wars and chants like "death to France, Belgium, infidels" etc. coming out of the Muslim world. Very sad indeed.

    To think that which you hold most sacred can be diminished by a cartoon is
    insanity at best. Actions speak louder then words. That which is truly Holy has nothing to do with cartoons, wars, threats, violence etc. Perhaps if you take a personally inventory of your own desires to kill, hate and destroy everything you deem unholy you may be in for a surprise. Being spiritual has noting to do with religion. The history books are full of this madness with every major religion guilty of persecuting and killing what it deems unholy.
    What really pisses you off is that there maniacs in your own faith you don't want to deal with. The terrorist are to Islam as what the KKK is to Christianity.

    It’s the terrorist that are destroying Islam not some idiotic cartoon.
    I suggest you guys show some rage every time someone commits an act of terror in Mohammad’s name. This is the where the problem is.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
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    Posts
    470

    Re: Cartoon rows

    The most disturbing aspect is the reaction of Muslims living in Western society; placards reminding us of 9/11 and 7/7, threats. Whilst these demonstrations are from a few radicals, the sentiment inderlying it runs much wider. It shows up the fallacy of "multicultural society". I would fight for equal rights for all races and creeds in our society, but I insist that immigrants clinging to their ethnic cultures utterly respect our values and do not force theirs down our throats.

    Muslims living in Muslim countries can shout what they like, that's their right. As long as they leave us alone.


    The other side of the coin is that "freedom of speech" in Western societies is ambiguous. Legally we can't make defamatory remarks, incite violence ect. Morally we tend to refrain from offensive comments: we could not funtion as social groups, at home or at work, if we said what we thought all the time. We make judgements all the time about what to say, balancing the offence it could cause against the need (or entertainment value) to say it.

    I can't make up my mind whether the decision to publish the cartoons originally was fair comment or an unempathetic misjudgement. But to re-publish someting that is offensive just for the purpose of defending the right to be able to do so is poor judgement.

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