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Topic: Blending EWQLSO and Sonic Implant Strings

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  1. #1

    Blending EWQLSO and Sonic Implant Strings

    Has anyone here used both libraries together? I notice that Sonic Implant Symphonic Strings are recorded at 48k while EWQLSO are 44.1. How can you combine them without compromising the sounds quality of either?

  2. #2

    Re: Blending EWQLSO and Sonic Implant Strings

    Can you tell the diff between 44 or 48k in music demos' etc? I can't. And while that doesn't say much there are many double blind experiments that show that most cannot. Don't worry about it. Your ears should be more concerned w/ the ambient differance between the two though many of the guys here combine the two daily.

  3. #3

    Re: Blending EWQLSO and Sonic Implant Strings

    You may have to add some reverb tail to SI, but pretty much any libraries blend fine even though they're recorded in different spaces. The sample rate conversion is handled automatically - you don't have to worry about that.

  4. #4
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    Re: Blending EWQLSO and Sonic Implant Strings

    Quote Originally Posted by artsoundz
    Can you tell the diff between 44 or 48k in music demos' etc? I can't. And while that doesn't say much there are many double blind experiments that show that most cannot. Don't worry about it. Your ears should be more concerned w/ the ambient differance between the two though many of the guys here combine the two daily.
    With a number of orchestral libraries available, one of the problems faced with is sonic incompatibility. The difficulty with getting sounds from different libraries to match is that they are recorded in different spaces. The signature sound of the hall is different and getting them to sound like they are in the same space has been a challenge.

    We are developing a new way for orchestral library users to match their libraries and help them to work together. The upcoming 'Real Spaces' impulse library attempts to solve exactly the type of problem faced by users of multiple sample libraries.

    By having multi-positional impulses recorded in the spaces where some of the sample library sessions took place, we thought it may help in bridging the gap among sample libraries and getting them to work together.

    We have captured multi-positional impulses in the halls that East West, Sonic Implants and Miroslave were recorded in. One of the goals is to get libraries to mix and match. We also have a number of other great spaces. I'll post more about this soon on a separate thread.

    Gary Garritan

  5. #5

    Re: Blending EWQLSO and Sonic Implant Strings

    I can clearly hear when I library recorded at 44.1 is played back at 48 -- no A/B comparison needed, I can just hear the thinness of the "on-the-fly" conversion. My interest in the Sonic Implant Strings are both the sound which I like in the demos and the fact that, like East West, they were recorded in their proper stage positions with release trails. The fact that they are in a different hall than East West might be an advantage to emphasize different colors.

    It would be nice to get the two halls as IR's in order to better blend other close mic sounds. I'll be very interested in the "Real Spaces."

    Thanks to all,
    JD

  6. #6
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    Re: Blending EWQLSO and Sonic Implant Strings

    Quote Originally Posted by dackl
    the fact that, like East West, they were recorded in their proper stage positions
    What is meant by "proper" stage positions? Orchestras can have as many positions as the karma sutra. They come in all different sizes and shapes. Different orchestras have various seating positions. For instance, the NY Philharmonic and many other orchestras have 1st and 2nd violins stage left, whereas the Seattle Symphony has 1st and 2nd violins at opposite sides of the stage. There are many different seating arrangements depending on the venue, the conductor's and music director's preference, the works being performed and other factors. One of the nice things about orchestras is their flexibility. I don't think there are "proper" positions per se.

    Gary Garritan

  7. #7

    Re: Blending EWQLSO and Sonic Implant Strings

    There are definitely "proper positions" in the common orchestral layout. Confining different vertical planes of orchestral music to instruments of similar character, range and timbre (application) is a fundamental rule of orchestration. The western world's standard seating position chart is a product of decades of refinement, in a natural synergetic evolution between composers and musicians with a primary goal to produce the most efficient layout, both in terms of practicality and musicality (i.e favorable blends of frequencies and their interaction with the performance environment). Think about it for a minute. For example, it is not by pure happenstance that bass instruments are situated within close physical proximity to each other, or that bassoons and 'celli are nearby. The seating chart that we have arrived at today is a complex puzzle that I wouldn't dare mess with. You'd most likely run the risk of compromising the single most important factor of any orchestral performance: relative balance. Usually layout discrepancies are either compromises made due to impractical stage configurations (lack of space) or some avant-garde composer's/conductor's odd preference. In fact the only true divergence of opinion that remains in the 20th century is that of the brass group's seating positions. Whereas most, if not all american orchestras seem to be in full agreement that the brass instruments should be lined up in the horizontal order by which they appear in the concert score layout (left to right: horn,trumpet,trombone,tuba), some european orchestras swear by completely nonsensical configurations whereby horns are situated to the right of the tuba. Of course in the digital domain few of these rules apply, but unless I'm mistaken that's a completely different discussion

  8. #8
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    Re: Blending EWQLSO and Sonic Implant Strings

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas_J
    There are definitely "proper positions" in the common orchestral layout. Confining different vertical planes of orchestral music to instruments of similar character, range and timbre (application) is a fundamental rule of orchestration. The western world's standard seating position chart is a product of decades of refinement, in a natural synergetic evolution between composers and musicians with a primary goal to produce the most efficient layout, both in terms of practicality and musicality (i.e favorable blends of frequencies and their interaction with the performance environment). Think about it for a minute. For example, it is not by pure happenstance that bass instruments are situated within close physical proximity to each other, or that bassoons and 'celli are nearby. The seating chart that we have arrived at today is a complex puzzle that I wouldn't dare mess with. You'd most likely run the risk of compromising the single most important factor of any orchestral performance: relative balance. Usually layout discrepancies are either compromises made due to impractical stage configurations (lack of space) or some avant-garde composer's/conductor's odd preference. In fact the only true divergence of opinion that remains in the 20th century is that of the brass group's seating positions. Whereas most, if not all american orchestras seem to be in full agreement that the brass instruments should be lined up in the horizontal order by which they appear in the concert score layout (left to right: horn,trumpet,trombone,tuba), some european orchestras swear by completely nonsensical configurations whereby horns are situated to the right of the tuba. Of course in the digital domain few of these rules apply, but unless I'm mistaken that's a completely different discussion
    There are many different seating arrangements and no "proper" positions for the players since the sections can vary considerably. There are no absolutes when it comes to seating and it's relative to the orchestra, the venue, the work being performed, the conductor's preferences and other considerations. Yes, of course players playing the same instruments are grouped together (except in some avant garde configurations), but the size and position of the sections are what vary. If the sections move or the size changes, the position does not remain constant. A player may be seated stage left or stage right, can be closer to the conductor or further away, depending on the work, the orchestra and/or the venue. The Philharmonia site provides some examples of different seating charts showing a variety of seating positions:


    A seating layout with Triple woodwind, five horns
    and four trumpets for a strong line of brass.
    cellos right, 1st and violins stage left. Trombones right, horns left.




    A large orchestra with C. von Dohnyani's favoured position for the cellos to the left of the conductor. Note: violins are split across the stage. Trombones left rear, horns right




    Vladimir Ashkenazy's favoured layout, but with a vastly expanded orchestra.
    Quadruple wind, seven horns (stage left), piano, celeste, harp, organ, etc.!





    CVD = Christoph von Dohnyani. His favoured string seatings once again,
    but note the positions of the basses, brass and percussion. Presumably
    the hall was a factor on this occasion. Violins split across the stage, cellos left, trombones left rear (trumpets in front), horns right







    This is the seating plan for a performance of Bartˇk's Music for
    Strings, Percussion and Celeste
    which has an unusual symmetrical arrangement.




    Brahms Symphony No. 1, as laid out for Maestro von Dohnyani.






    And a CVD seating plan for quadruple woodwind.




  9. #9

    Re: Blending EWQLSO and Sonic Implant Strings

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan
    There is no "proper" position for the players since the sections can vary considerably.
    I agree there is no proper position too.... especially if you count pit orchestra in too (which is what I write for mostly)

    Cheers,
    Frankie
    Dell Precision T3500 (Xeon W3520, 12GB RAM) / Windows 7 x64 / Sonar 8 / VE Pro / WIVI 2.3 / Kontakt 4 / G-Player 1.2

  10. #10

    Re: Blending EWQLSO and Sonic Implant Strings

    Where? Someone's coming out with a pit orchestra library? Who? Huh?

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