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Topic: Crossfading groups: Help needed

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  1. #1

    Crossfading groups: Help needed

    I could need some help
    I´m currently programming a Bandoneon. I would like to CROSSFADE three different soundgroups via the modwheel.
    It´s no problem to programm one of the groups to only play at a specific modwheel position but this doesn´t CROSSFADE the different groups, meaning that when I play one group and use the modwheel I have to play the note again to hear the second and third group. Fading the groups in and out via modulation of the volume works quite well but only with TWO groups. I can´t fade in a THIRD group as the volume modulation doesn´t work within a specific RANGE of the modwheel.
    I hope I could make my problem clear enough (a bit difficult a s a non-native speaker). Is there any solution to my problem?

    One more question: Do you know if I can modulate the sample start point of different samples using the modwheel or will I have to use a script to perform this task?

    Thanks very much for your help
    Best regards
    Wolfgang

  2. #2

    Re: Crossfading groups: Help needed

    Hi Raindog,

    I'm just startin out with K2 so I'm not an expert - but, there is a tutorial on the NI web site that exactly describes what I think you want to do. Although it's written for Kontakt 1.2 it is still good for later versions

    You'll have to log in to actually get the files
    Look for "Advanced Programming in Kontakt 1.2

    There a 4 section to it and "group fading" is the one you want. There are samples that go with this tutorial but all you really need is the PDF file

    Fred

  3. #3

    Re: Crossfading groups: Help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by fred Holmes
    Hi Raindog,

    I'm just startin out with K2 so I'm not an expert - but, there is a tutorial on the NI web site that exactly describes what I think you want to do. Although it's written for Kontakt 1.2 it is still good for later versions

    You'll have to log in to actually get the files
    Look for "Advanced Programming in Kontakt 1.2

    There a 4 section to it and "group fading" is the one you want. There are samples that go with this tutorial but all you really need is the PDF file

    Fred
    Hi Fred,
    why didnt I know about the tutorial???

    You saved my day. Thanks very much. Now I just need to find out if I can adjust the sample start with a controller (but I think you need scripting for such a thing and it won´t work in DFD mode).
    Thanks again
    Raindog

  4. #4

    Re: Crossfading groups: Help needed

    "Now I just need to find out if I can adjust the sample start with a controller (but I think you need scripting for such a thing and it won´t work in DFD mode).
    "


    Hi Raindog - If you find a reference to that please post a reply - I'd also find it useful. Have to say that dealing with this technical stuff is not my forte' but necessary if i want to mke music with the computer. I don't even know how to "Quote" properly

    Good luck,
    Fred

  5. #5
    Senior Member Big Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Crossfading groups: Help needed

    Now I just need to find out if I can adjust the sample start with a controller (but I think you need scripting for such a thing and it won´t work in DFD mode).
    Hey Raindog, I your assumptions are entirely correct. I don't think K2 itself provides any means for starting a sample with an offset from the beginning. It can (as you suspected) be done with the KSP using the play_note() function. But, you are also correct in that it doesn't work in DFD mode.

    However, if you can run in Sampler mode, a script to do what you want will be fairly easy to write.

    Bob
    Big Bob (aka Wonderful Bob)

  6. #6

    Re: Crossfading groups: Help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bob
    Hey Raindog, I your assumptions are entirely correct. I don't think K2 itself provides any means for starting a sample with an offset from the beginning. It can (as you suspected) be done with the KSP using the play_note() function. But, you are also correct in that it doesn't work in DFD mode.

    However, if you can run in Sampler mode, a script to do what you want will be fairly easy to write.

    Bob
    Hi Bob and thanks very much for the info.
    I think I´ll have to get deeper into that script thing
    I´m about to programm a Bandoneon and would like to modulate the attack of the sound not via envelope but via the sample start to have more control over the sharp attack these beasts have.
    best regards
    Raindog

  7. #7
    Senior Member Big Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Crossfading groups: Help needed

    I´m about to programm a Bandoneon and would like to modulate the attack of the sound not via envelope but via the sample start to have more control over the sharp attack these beasts have.
    best regards
    Raindog
    If you tell me the range of sample-start offset you want to cover, I can whip out a simple script for you that will allow you to use a MIDI CC to control the offset. As you move the CC from min to max, the sample-start offset will change from zero to Max_Offset. Give me a value for Max_Offset time and I'll post a script that should do the job.

    Bob
    Big Bob (aka Wonderful Bob)

  8. #8

    Re: Crossfading groups: Help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bob
    If you tell me the range of sample-start offset you want to cover, I can whip out a simple script for you that will allow you to use a MIDI CC to control the offset. As you move the CC from min to max, the sample-start offset will change from zero to Max_Offset. Give me a value for Max_Offset time and I'll post a script that should do the job.

    Bob
    Hi BigBob and than ks very much for the offer.
    I´ll check which sample offset makes sense. Maybe I can give you something back as a thank you
    Regards
    Raindog

  9. #9
    Senior Member Big Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Crossfading groups: Help needed

    I´ll check which sample offset makes sense.
    The trade off is between max offset and fine control. There are only 127 CC values (besides 0) so the range between 0 and max offset can only have 127 'in-between' values.

    I'll also add an adjustable fade-in time. If the Instrument's envelope has the usual fast attack segment, just starting the sample late will probably not soften the sound as you might want.

    Maybe I can give you something back as a thank you
    If it does the job for you, that'll be thanks enough . So, just give me the max value for offset.

    Bob
    Big Bob (aka Wonderful Bob)

  10. #10
    Senior Member Big Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Crossfading groups: Help needed

    Hey Raindog,

    Here's a script you can try. I set the maximum offset to one second (1,000,000 microseconds). If you need to shorten or lengthen this, simply edit the first 'declare' line accordingly. To use this script, set the edit box to the CC number you want to use for offset control. When the CC value is set to zero, the script does nothing (ie the sample starts without any offset and the fade-in setting has no effect). When the CC value is set higher than zero, the fade-in knob will be operational and the sample-start offset will be determined by the CC's value (CC=127 will produce an offset of 1 second).

    Code:
    { CC Controlled Sample Start }
    on init
      declare const $Max_Offset := 1000000
      declare ui_knob $Attack (0,200000,1000000)
      $Attack := 30000
      declare ui_value_edit $Ofst_CC (1,119,1)
      $Ofst_CC := 2
      declare $NewID
      declare $Ofst
    end on
    on note
      if (%CC[$Ofst_CC] # 0)
        ignore_event($EVENT_ID)
        $Ofst := $Max_Offset*%CC[$Ofst_CC]/127
        $NewID := play_note($EVENT_NOTE,$EVENT_VELOCITY,$Ofst,-1)
        fade_in($NewID,$Attack)
      end if
    end on
    on controller
      if ($CC_NUM = $Ofst_CC)
        ignore_controller
      end if
    end on
    Have fun.

    Bob

    PS If you don't want to use a fade-in, simply set the knob to zero.
    Big Bob (aka Wonderful Bob)

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