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Topic: Standard MIDI file results with JABB

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  1. #1
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    Standard MIDI file results with JABB

    I have played one of Gary Wachtel's great "General MIDI" sequences into an MP3 with Overture. There were no changes, other than to run the GM file through the CC1 converter program. These sequences are based on real charts and are a great launching point for experimenting with JABB.

    You can download the file at:
    http://bellsouthpwp2.net/k/s/kswalls/AFoggyDay_0001.mp3

    You can subscribe to Gary's library at a very reasonable cost. See www.garyw0001.com or contact him at garyw0001@aol.com

    Keith Walls

    Last edited by KeithW; 12-31-2005 at 01:45 PM. Reason: URL change

  2. #2
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    Re: Standard MIDI file results with JABB

    ...and if you want to hear the "real" chart played with real musicians, check out Dave Wolpe's site... www.wolpechart.com (this is a vocal. Vocal was replaced by pitched percussion in the MIDI version.)

    Keith Walls

  3. #3
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    Re: Standard MIDI file results with JABB

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithW
    I have played one of Gary Wachtel's great "General MIDI" sequences into an MP3 with Overture. There were no changes, other than to run the GM file through the CC1 converter program. These sequences are based on real charts and are a great launching point for experimenting with JABB.

    You can download the file at:
    http://bellsouthpwp2.net/k/s/kswalls/AFoggyDay_0001.mp3

    You can subscribe to Gary's library at a very reasonable cost. See www.garyw0001.com or contact him at garyw0001@aol.com

    Keith Walls

    Keith, Thanks for posting this. This is a great resource. And it certainly a good launching point for experimenting and also getting started with Jazz. It may be a good idea to contact Gary Wachtel sometime.

    Thanks for the information.

    Gary Garritan

  4. #4

    Re: Standard MIDI file results with JABB

    This is a perfect example of performance from overly-quantized midi parts. Gary does great transcriptions, but when all the instruments start and release exactly together, even with JABB, you get the 'midi organ' effect.

    Try offsetting the start times of the individual parts just a tick or two. And to make it closer to real players, not the whole track. If a player comes in late on a phrase, he will tend to stay behind a bit, even if he catches up. The next phrase, he may be early, 'over-compensating' or just business as usual. Meanwhile the guy to his left may be doing it just a bit differently again.

    This example shows how well some of the phrases feel like a band, and others sound like the midi organ. The ones that work have the instruments playing different parts, not just lockstep harmony/unison. And of course, all the falls sound like a pitch wheel.

    Not to criticize your efforts, Keith. I worked with some of Gary's early charts (AOL days) and fought the exact same issues, only was doing it with much inferior sound quality (U-220, SC-88, etc.) Did not do nearly as well. Nice job.
    Dasher
    -------
    It's all about the music - really. I keep telling myself that...

  5. #5

    Re: Standard MIDI file results with JABB

    I've had good results with Frank's Humanize Midi Plugin (http://www.midi-plugins.de/). It adds a controllable random element to note on, length and velocity data and is a simple point-and-shoot way of loosening up hard-quantized tracks.

    hotwash

  6. #6
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    Re: Standard MIDI file results with JABB

    Quote Originally Posted by thesoundsmith
    This is a perfect example of performance from overly-quantized midi parts. Gary does great transcriptions, but when all the instruments start and release exactly together, even with JABB, you get the 'midi organ' effect.

    Try offsetting the start times of the individual parts just a tick or two. And to make it closer to real players, not the whole track. If a player comes in late on a phrase, he will tend to stay behind a bit, even if he catches up. The next phrase, he may be early, 'over-compensating' or just business as usual. Meanwhile the guy to his left may be doing it just a bit differently again.

    This example shows how well some of the phrases feel like a band, and others sound like the midi organ. The ones that work have the instruments playing different parts, not just lockstep harmony/unison. And of course, all the falls sound like a pitch wheel.

    Not to criticize your efforts, Keith. I worked with some of Gary's early charts (AOL days) and fought the exact same issues, only was doing it with much inferior sound quality (U-220, SC-88, etc.) Did not do nearly as well. Nice job.
    I agree with everything you said. The main purpose of this posting was to show you how a "standard" jazz chart sounds right out of the box, with no changes. I had intented to make some changes to this and see how I could tweak it, but, alas, time is always an issue. General MIDI is weak to begin with, and getting them to sound "nice" in JABB will probably always take some work. Because of the 16 channel limitation, unitimbral instruments are often ganged up on single channels as multimbral instruments. They also implement "Keyswitches" as patch changes, and their is no program that I know of to convert patch changes to keyswitches (challege issued!)

    I picked Geniesoft Overture 4 over Finale and Sibelius for this example because I wanted you to hear it "vanilla." I suspect that when Finale and Sibelius support JABB in the same fashion that they support GPO, the "art" of getting pre-recorded Jazz MIDI sequences to sound "real" might get easier.

    Keith Walls

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