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Topic: Keyswitching Woes

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  1. #1

    Exclamation Keyswitching Woes

    Ok, I confess. I have not used the keyswtched versions of the instraments. Can you all forgive me?

    I"m repenting and starting now, but I'm running into some issues that I would like some input on. In other words, I might be going down the wrong path and I need some friends to show me the way before I go too far down it.

    Issue #1:
    The alternating up and down bowing (D1 keyswitch). All it seems to do is make the downbow louder than the upbow note, making my phrase uneven. Obviously, that is not the intent behind the feature. But for the life of me, all I am doing is drastically lowering the velocity of all downbows to keep things even. What am I doing wrong? Help!!!!

    Issue #2:
    If I use, say, 4 Keyswitched violins on the same part I expect I'll get phasing problems. So, I'll need to move each part a few ticks to try and resolve that. But with 4 parts that can get a bit unwieldy. Am I going about this right? Also, won't vibratos start clashing?

    I can see the potential, but execution is obviously failing. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

    -LFO
    We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams …
    24" 2.4 Ghz iMac, OSX 10.4.10, MOTU 828 MKII, 2 Glyph 250 Gig external drives, Logic 9, Finale 2008 GPO, JABB, Strad, Gro, Reason 4, EWQL Storm Drum, Adrenaline, Symphonic Choirs, SO Gold,All Arturia Synths, Many NI Synths, Spectrasonics Synths, KH Strings, VEPro on a Windows 7 4x 2.8 Ghz 12 gig of RAM

  2. #2

    Re: Keyswitching Woes

    Quote Originally Posted by LFO
    Issue #2:
    If I use, say, 4 Keyswitched violins on the same part I expect I'll get phasing problems. So, I'll need to move each part a few ticks to try and resolve that. But with 4 parts that can get a bit unwieldy. Am I going about this right? Also, won't vibratos start clashing?
    If you use multiple instances of the same violin voice playing the same part, with all settings identical and all timing identical, you will not get phasing. You will get a loud violin. When the samples are aligned and otherwise unmodified (say with the VAR settings), the effect on the volume is additive. It's when you offset the timing on identical samples that the phasing occurs.

    The phasing problem does not generally occur if you use the "Plr" voices or the 3 different solo violins. (There are complex reasons why it may occur with the "Plr" voices, which have been described by Tom Hopkins elsewhere).

    Have you tried to mix and match the "Plr" voices from the 3 different violins? Granted they are not keyswitched. You can create a two small sections of 5 and 4 players without duplicating voices. If you're using a sequencer like SONAR, and you don't want to replay each track to produce more realistic variations among the tracks, you can clone the original track, including the notes, and then offset the timing of the tracks slightly.

    If you need to use the KS voices, you can blend a solo KS Vln with the KS section Vlns, with the section mixed back so that the solo predominates and gives a more intimate sound.
    Bill

  3. #3

    Thumbs up Re: Keyswitching Woes

    Bill,
    Thanks for the reply. To this point I've used the Player 1, 2 and 3 violins on each part to create a string section without duplicating players on a part. The results can be found here:

    http://www.clangates.com/fanfare.mp3

    I'd posted the song here but got no real technical feedback on the piece, over on the Cubase forum (I put it together in SX) the feedback was generally `it sounds fake, use the KS versions of the instraments'. So, I'm looking into using them instead. I'll try your ideas of using the KS section violin and see how that turns out. If you listen to my piece and have other suggestions I'm all ears.

    Thanks again for the feedback!

    -Kevin
    We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams …
    24" 2.4 Ghz iMac, OSX 10.4.10, MOTU 828 MKII, 2 Glyph 250 Gig external drives, Logic 9, Finale 2008 GPO, JABB, Strad, Gro, Reason 4, EWQL Storm Drum, Adrenaline, Symphonic Choirs, SO Gold,All Arturia Synths, Many NI Synths, Spectrasonics Synths, KH Strings, VEPro on a Windows 7 4x 2.8 Ghz 12 gig of RAM

  4. #4

    Re: Keyswitching Woes

    Kevin,

    Yes, it does sound a bit "synthy".

    But I don't think your use of the "Plr" voices is the reason. It sounds to me as though there is very little expression in the strings, which in GPO is achieved through though variations in velocity, by the use of the mod wheel (CC#1), and by using the pedal (CC#64), note overlaps, or both for the legato passages.

    Generally, you will achieve the most realistic sound, particularly with respect to the natural note velocities, by recording as you play the parts from a keyboard while working the mod wheel and pedal. It's nearly impossible to get a realistic sound by, for example, entering the piece via the piano roll or from notation. I don't know if that's how you did this (via piano roll, notation), but it has that sound.

    Try playing and recording the parts. You will get much better results, even if you use the "Plr" voices. The KS voices are somewhat better because they are (more or less) chromatically sampled. The "Plrs" are not. All the above with regard to velocity, CC#1 and CC#64 holds true for the strings, brass and woodwinds.
    Bill

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