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Topic: Sample Library indecisiveness. Please Heeelp!

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  1. #1

    Sample Library indecisiveness. Please Heeelp!

    Ok..so I'm finally, after a lot of drooling and headache, about to buy a steady setup of orchestral sample libraries. With christmas coming up there are also some good deals going on. And I've finally managed to put away enough hard earned money to be able to go for it (so guess I have to buy cheap christmas gifts this year )!
    I've during the last months listened to most demos from all libraries and read most of the information about 'em, including a lot of discussions on this forum.
    I've only had the opportunity to try out EWQLSO Silver and Stormdrum IRL.
    Still, I feel like I'm lost in a djungle. Now It's up to you to give me the final verdict.
    Which sample libraries should I go for? I've made some "bundle" combinations, taking my budget into consideration (approx. 1750$, give or take).

    My current options are:

    SO Gold, Symphonic Choirs and Stormdrum
    or
    Opus 1 , Symphonic Choirs and Stormdrum
    or
    Opus Bunde and Symphonic Choirs
    or
    Opus Bundle and Stormdrum

    Or maybe some completely other combo..such as SISS, some other Brass & WW and Percussion lib. Kirk Hunter maybe?
    Or if you guys have any other suggestions within the same price range?
    I want a big sound, and to be able to compose fast and smooth without a retarded amount of tweaking, why I've understood that EWQLSO as well as SISS are good options.
    On the other hand, Opus maybe has a more authentic sound at the end of the day. (Which, after 20 years of playing the violin, is rather important )
    Aargh..I'm going nuts. Can't decide...kid in a candystore...please help. This decision is important to me since it will be the backbone of my setup, and set the standard to what my work will sound like.
    Oh, and in case anyone suggests Opus, should I go for the GS or the Kontakt version??
    Furthermore, an additional note maybe worth mentioning is that the sound of solo violins/strings (often a libs selling point) is not that important. So far, they all sound pretty crap IMO.

    I really hope someone can help me out here!

    Many thanks!
    /Daniel

  2. #2

    Re: Sample Library indecisiveness. Please Heeelp!

    Hmm... if it were me making the choice, I would opt for the Bundle and Choirs.
    The Opus bundle is extremely versatile, and allows for a much greater freedom in writing and stylistic variance.
    One would be hard put to argue against SC, there simply isn't another choral set out there right now that approaches its breadth and sound quality.

    I'd get the bundle for giga, since you'll be able to load more samples per system, have access to patch changing and all the other giga goodness.

    If you are thinking of other standalone brass libraries, then you simply must look at the ones from Project SAM - amazing and relatively affordable.

    Hope this helps, though I can understand what you are going through making these choices.

  3. #3

    Re: Sample Library indecisiveness. Please Heeelp!

    Well big sound out of the box suggests that you should get whatever you can of gold, choirs and StormDrum. If you had to save somewhere I would save on the choir, unless you know that you absolutely what a choir in every peice you make. The choir is fine, but also very expenssive if you only use it in two-three tracks a year

    All that said, my personal preference would be the Opus Bundle. Owning both, I would choose Opus over Gold 8 out of 10 times. But Opus does require programming/composing chops to make big.

    Of Gold, Stormdrum and choirs I personaly have used StormDrums the most. This is simply becuase I often prefere Opus over Gold, and have not used the choirs quite enough yet. And stormdrums are just pretty cool.

  4. #4

    Re: Sample Library indecisiveness. Please Heeelp!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldhrimnir
    I want a big sound, and to be able to compose fast and smooth without a retarded amount of tweaking, why I've understood that EWQLSO as well as SISS are good options.
    Get Gold and Gold ProXP and Stormdrum. Those are the biggest and fastest libraries you can get. Not the most versatile but the biggest sounding and fastest to work with due to the release samples in Gold so that you don't really have to mix that much. The choir might be fast enough to work with after you get the hang of it but the learning curve is rather steep for a sample library. Most likely you'll get further with a symphonic orchestra without a choir than with a symphonic choir without an orchestra. Get the choir later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldhrimnir
    Oh, and in case anyone suggests Opus, should I go for the GS or the Kontakt version??
    If you want more options and especially options in more intimate sound, then the Opus bundle is great. You can get it later. The discount for Gold + ProXP is more than the discount for VSL products and you said you wanted both big and fast which Opus isn't. It can be big and it can be relatively fast but it won't be both at the same time. To get big with Opus you'll need a good convolution reverb and a great deal of processor power for it.

    If you end up getting the Opus bundle then make sure you get Kontakt 2. The performance scripts (especially the legato) will make your work so much easier. You just load the performance instrument just like any other and you get the great VSL legato without any hassle with the Performance Tool. Kontakt 2 can also remove unused samples from memory which can be useful when your song is 'almost there' but needs the last instrument which won't fit into memory without removing something first.

  5. #5

    Re: Sample Library indecisiveness. Please Heeelp!

    Slight left turn, but still on topic:

    Could someone explain the two different processes used in creating with Gold as opposed to creating with VSL Opus? (Aside from the release tails/ambiance issue.) Could someone go into a little detail as to why working VSL Opus is supposedly not nearly as fast as working with Gold? Thanks.

  6. #6

    Re: Sample Library indecisiveness. Please Heeelp!

    Opus has more different articulations (which is good IMHO - but more options is slower), and it needs to have some good conv. verb set up.

    However if you set things up in template which I did, then there isent't really a big difference in composing time. You might need more mixing time with Opus, since it does not soun big out of the box.

  7. #7

    Re: Sample Library indecisiveness. Please Heeelp!

    Does Opus have pre-set sections like Gold, or do I have to create each section, one instrument at a time?

  8. #8

    Re: Sample Library indecisiveness. Please Heeelp!

    You have to load each instrument seperately. Which is why it would be preferable to work with a basic template.

  9. #9

    Re: Sample Library indecisiveness. Please Heeelp!

    Damnit you guys...you didn't exactly make things easier for me
    Haha but thanks alot for your comments! I really appreciate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jc5
    Hmm... if it were me making the choice, I would opt for the Bundle and Choirs.
    The Opus bundle is extremely versatile, and allows for a much greater freedom in writing and stylistic variance.
    Yes, that's a conclusion I've also made. But still, as Marcussen states, it does take a lot of work to get the sound right. However, a tiny feeling in my gut tells me to get the Opus bundle...maybe because Vienna products feels a bit more professional? The need of good reverb, as some of you mentioned, is also not an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by jc5
    "I'd get the bundle for giga, since you'll be able to load more samples per system, have access to patch changing and all the other giga goodness."
    Quote Originally Posted by janila
    "If you end up getting the Opus bundle then make sure you get Kontakt 2."
    Hehe ok..so what do I make of these to statements? Two completely different views. I somehow get the feeling the Kontakt version is easier/faster to work with, but GS offers a lot more options?
    How is the Opus actually delivered; when is the format of choice selected? Haven't really got that part yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcussen
    If you had to save somewhere I would save on the choir, unless you know that you absolutely what a choir in every peice you make. The choir is fine, but also very expenssive if you only use it in two-three tracks a year
    You're absolutely right. SC is expensive, but at the current sale ($740 instead of $995) it's hard to give up on. And I would feel comfortable knowing, that any time I _do_ need choirs, I don't have to bring people in to sing, or overdub my own voice 20 times hehe. But clearly..the SC is far from a necessity.

    Janila, the discount for Gold+XP is actually in percentages less than that of Vienna's. You do the maths Also..compared size-wise for fun, the Gold+XP offers 1Gb more, but for an additional $380.

    Oh, and also..Marcussen, how big a difference is the workflow from SO to Opus? The extra time and effort spent is apparently worth it in your opinion. Ehm..complicated question maybe..but I don't know how else to put it. Just hint me

    jc5, the SAM libraries are truly great and rather cheap, but then I'd have to complete with some other WW library as well = possibly pricey?


    Should I go for big sounding 'n fast, or for slow but with quality. Brain meltdown is near
    My best regards to all!

    /Daniel

  10. #10

    Re: Sample Library indecisiveness. Please Heeelp!

    Seeing as you are an experienced violinist, I think you would find a great deal of composer happiness with the bundle (as I have).

    Personally, the workflow issues have never meant much to me, but I wouldn't want to lead anyone astray and say that it would be the same for everyone else out there. I'll say this though, if you know how to write for orchestra you'll know what to do with those samples!

    A completely 'alternative' orchestra could be built from the SAM brass, GOS for strings, and... there really aren't any comparable stand alone woodwind libraries out there (Project SAM might be working on a set, but it is completely unknown when or if this would be coming out) - the closest would be the Westgate woodwinds, which are quite nice and have the added benefit of being the least expensive set mentioned in this thread so far!
    On the other hand, they really cannot be compared to the woodwinds you get in the bundle... (the performance legatos really will become staples of your setup). In this alternative scenario, the Westgates could be supplemented with VSL's French Oboe set.. but then the lack of legato flutes and bassoons may drive you mad over time!

    I recommend giga(3 in particular) because it handles a bigger load of samples, and you are going to need that, and because it is more suited for large scale work (they don't call it the 'Orchestra' verison for nothing), and the capacity for patch changing means you don't have to run off into hundreds of tracks spread out over a mess of 'instances'. The included Gigapulse does wonders with VSL material too.

    Stressful choices - its all expensive material, but you can take comfort that there isn a really 'wrong' choice amongst these - good results are achievable with everything mentioned here.

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