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Topic: EWQLSO Gold MIDI Volume

  1. #1

    EWQLSO Gold MIDI Volume

    Hi -
    I just got East West Symphonic Gold, and I'm having a slight issue with using midi volume with it. The ambience is built right into the sounds, so when I do any kind of midi volume adjustment on a part it adjusts the reverb/hall sound as well, and the effect is very unnatural. I just want the instrument volume to change - is there a better way to do swells etc. with this library besides using midi volume? How do I adjust the volume of the instrument but not the ambience? Should I just get the sound dry and use an external reverb?



  2. #2

    Re: EWQLSO Gold MIDI Volume

    Actually, Ive noticed that in a few patches too, if you lower CC11, you lose the ambience level too. The way around it for some patches at least is to leave the mod wheel up (like a sus DXF patch) and in that case you can use CC11.

    For stacs though, Im pretty sure you lose the release trail volume when you dip the midi volume.

    Perhaps this has been addressed in PRO?
    - SCA - Sound Studios -

  3. #3

    Re: EWQLSO Gold MIDI Volume

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzripper
    Should I just get the sound dry and use an external reverb?
    This would be the same effect. The external reverb would be lower on lower volume.

    If you own Kontakt 1 or Kontakt 2, there is a way to do what you want.
    Open the group editor, be shure to uncheck "edit all groups",
    select the release trail keygroup, press the "modulation" button in the amplifier modul,
    and delete the expression (cc11) modulator. Thats it.
    Now you can use cc7 Volume as overall volume and use cc11 for the balance between sound and release trails.

    I tryed it, works fine.

    Interesting effect, thanks for the hint.
    Sounds like a player walking away with his instrument.

    Chris Hein
    Chris Hein - Horns / Chris Hein - Guitars / Chris Hein - Bass

  4. #4

    Re: EWQLSO Gold MIDI Volume

    Sorry, I said 'midi volume' but I took a look and my expression pedal is using CC11, guess I was just assuming it was 7. But on my system, turning down CC11 brings down everything, reverb trails and all. I haven't tweaked anything (don't know how to yet), so I don't think I've messed up any settings. And setting the mod wheel all the way up/down didn't make any difference. Should CC11 bring the instrument level up/down without affecting the ambience tails, like when using a reverb? I understand that a lower instr volume will result in a lower tail, but it shouldn't cut off all tails, like it does now. It's acting just like a straight output volume (actually, just like cc7 )

    Any ideas?

    thanks again...

  5. #5

    Re: EWQLSO Gold MIDI Volume

    I'd be interested in hearing more on this topic, too. I'm not sure I can hear a difference at all using CC11, now I've discovered at least how to create a MIDI envelope for it...I use EWQLSO Gold as a DXi synth in Sonar 4 (meaning I do not have Kontakt ) I get frustrated with the static sound of my music, though. It tends to sound flat and mechanical, which drives me crazy since I hear something else in my head!!! Can anyone tell me how to fix this?

  6. #6

    Re: EWQLSO Gold MIDI Volume

    You won't hear any difference between Midi Volume (CC 07) and Midi Expression (CC 11). They both drop the level of the intrument. If the reverb you're listening to is in that instrument, it will also change in level.

    The only solution to this is to separate the sample sound from the reverb wash - which in your case probably means an expensive update to Platinum...

  7. #7

    Re: EWQLSO Gold MIDI Volume

    Geez, is this common? I'm no pro like a lot of people on this forum (far from it), but it seems to me one of the most basic things of trying to make an orchestra sound real is dynamics, no? Having the ambience in the sound, and go up and down with the instr level sure doesn't sound very natural to me. Sure it's masked when you've got a lot of things going on, but sometimes you don't have a lot of things going on! Well, whatever, can't complain too much with the price I paid for it, but seems like such a basic thing, wish there was a way to control the inst separate from the ambience (like on platinum, I guess). Is this what Giga gives you with the built-in convolution reverb it has? I suppose it doesn't matter, if the sample has ambience in it, there's no taking it out....

    Well, it's a great library anyway. Thanks for the info!


  8. #8

    Re: EWQLSO Gold MIDI Volume

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzripper
    Having the ambience in the sound, and go up and down with the instr level sure doesn't sound very natural to me.
    Me neither, particularly with fast sforzando-like changes. Moreover, if you attempt pitch modulation effects with the ambience burned into the sample, the pitch of the reverb will also be affected! Then again, I suppose they expect you to use provided articulations for this sort of stuff, but then you're constrained by the time-envelopes of those articulations rather than being able to "conduct" them yourself.

    I'm really hoping that the emergence of resource-friendly convolution reverbs will encourage more dry-recorded libraries.

    - m
    Free MFX and other plugins: http://www.TenCrazy.com/
    Markleford's music: http://www.markleford.com/music/

  9. #9

    Re: EWQLSO Gold MIDI Volume

    If your useing the Kompakt player that comes with Gold then I don't know how much help this will be.

    I use Gold in Kontakt 2 and one thing I've noticed is that the Volume in the Amplifier module is lower for Gold than it is for other libraries. This is not the Main Volume slider (cc7) that you see in the instrument header in K2 but is a separate Volume Knob (usually controled by cc11) on the Amplifier Module. On the Kompakt Player I kon't think you can see this control nor have access to it.

    Since cc11 is more of a fine control acting and based uppon cc7 (this includes the separate Amplifier setting too) then cc11 will only give you a maximum based on cc7 and the Amplifier setting (in the case of Gold, a -6db).

    Examineing Gold In K2, the Amplifier Knob is usually set at anywhere from a -6.0db to -12.0db. To compensate for this I usually increase the main volume (cc7) to a +3db or even +6db. Doing this will give you much more control and expression with cc11.


  10. #10

    Re: EWQLSO Gold MIDI Volume

    Keep in mind that EWQLSO is designed to allow for choices in this area.

    Platinum, with a choice of close, stage and far miking is probably the ideal version in terms of allowing users to 'fit' the sample type to their personal approach. If you want the samples separated from their room's reverb, you use the close miked samples and then put, say, a Gigastudio convolution reverb over the top. This way varying instrument levels doesn't affect the reverb level.

    Gold has always been a compromise in order to provide the same samples at a bargain price. In this case, one of the significant compromises is mic perspective choice. This is a clever economy, as removing the other two mic perspectives allows you to cut the number of samples supplied by two thirds - without having to sacrifice a single multi sampled instrument if you don't want to.

    If Gold had been made up of only the dryer close miked samples, I guarantee there would have been more complaints about dead sounding samples than there are about the lack of separation of room ambience from the samples.

    In the long run, tech advances will make convolution of dry samples the preferred choice, but in the short term EW decided that the marriage of room and sample was a more appealing approach.

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