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Topic: Prayer for Eddie (Read)

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  1. #1

    Prayer for Eddie (Read)

    I just finished an orchestral arrangement of a piece I wrote originally in 1999 in memory of a great friend of mine and wonderful musician, Eddie Sossin. He died suddenly in May of that year and this was written for a memorial concert held a few months after his death. This is actually the first movement. The second movement is more of a latin jazz thing and the piece was originally scored for jazz orchestra. This one always seemed like it would lend itself to symphonic scoring, so I gave it a whirl. Due to CPU complaints from my otherwise trustworthy Mac I had to forgo a couple of rolls on both suspended cymbals and timpani for this Finale rendering, but I left in the big harp gliss!

    http://www.paulread.ca/songs/PrayerOrch.mp3

    As always, I have questions. How could I configure the full orchestra to avoid the major CPU burp that happened at the climax? I AM using built in audio only. If I sprung for an audio card, would that make all the difference? Most of the clicks and splurks seemed to vanish by the time I did the audio recording and then converted to mp3. But I'd like to know what to do. As you can see from my signature, I have a reasonably hearty setup and one would think this could be avoided.

    Thanks for listening and hope you enjoy.



    Paul
    Last edited by daerp@mac.com; 11-14-2005 at 11:15 PM. Reason: Fixed link
    Mac Pro 2X2.8 Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xenon, 10Gb 800 MHz DDR2 FB-DIMM, OS10.6.4, Finale 2011, Digital Performer 7.1, Altiverb 6, Yamaha S90, Built-in audio, GPO, JABB, Garritan Authorized Steinway (Pro), Reason 3, M-Audio Ozone, Giovani, Symphonic Choirs, Kontakt 2, Vienna Symphonic Library. Website:http://www.paulread.ca

  2. #2

    Re: Prayer for Eddie (Read)

    Hi Paul, I can tell you miss him by the tender moments in this piece.

    Interesting, your setup is about identical to mine. I have a G5 dual 2.0 Ghz machine with 3.5 gigs of ram, DP 4.6, Altiverb 5 and a Yamaha KX-88 controller keyboard.

    My setup is different in that all the sounds are lightpiped into DP from a separate PC for samples.

    What I'm curious about is why you had to sacrifice some sounds.
    It is somewhat of a hassel, but I do record all my sounds to audio tracks and then I mix.
    I just heard the last resolving chord, nice stuff Paul.

    Do what I do, record these instruments to audio tracks. Your system is capable of oodles of tracks, way more than you used in this Memorial piece.

    Hope this helps,
    I trust you can smile when you think of your lost friend.

    What a nice honorable thing to do Paul!
    dpDan

  3. #3

    Re: Prayer for Eddie (Read)

    Hi Dan
    Thanks for your comments and your help. I know from an earlier post that you don't use Finale (at least I think I'm right). I wonder if from what you suggest I should finish the notation and then save the file as MIDI and open in DP and do all the mixing there. (BTW, I've listed Altiverb 5 in my sig but can only use the demo so far (with pings) as my real version has been on order for the past two weeks and I can't wait for it to arrive. The demo sounds fantastic!). I'm curious about your strategy of recording all tracks to audio first. I believe I know how to do that okay, but I'm curious as to why you do that. Does it give you more control? Cleaner results?

    Again thanks for the help.
    Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by DPDAN
    Hi Paul, I can tell you miss him by the tender moments in this piece.

    Interesting, your setup is about identical to mine. I have a G5 dual 2.0 Ghz machine with 3.5 gigs of ram, DP 4.6, Altiverb 5 and a Yamaha KX-88 controller keyboard.

    My setup is different in that all the sounds are lightpiped into DP from a separate PC for samples.

    What I'm curious about is why you had to sacrifice some sounds.
    It is somewhat of a hassel, but I do record all my sounds to audio tracks and then I mix.
    I just heard the last resolving chord, nice stuff Paul.

    Do what I do, record these instruments to audio tracks. Your system is capable of oodles of tracks, way more than you used in this Memorial piece.

    Hope this helps,
    I trust you can smile when you think of your lost friend.

    What a nice honorable thing to do Paul!
    dpDan
    Mac Pro 2X2.8 Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xenon, 10Gb 800 MHz DDR2 FB-DIMM, OS10.6.4, Finale 2011, Digital Performer 7.1, Altiverb 6, Yamaha S90, Built-in audio, GPO, JABB, Garritan Authorized Steinway (Pro), Reason 3, M-Audio Ozone, Giovani, Symphonic Choirs, Kontakt 2, Vienna Symphonic Library. Website:http://www.paulread.ca

  4. #4
    Senior Member Styxx's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Prayer for Eddie (Read)

    Paul, this is a very emotional and touching piece. I concur with Dan on the "tender moments."
    Very touching...
    Styxx

  5. #5

    Re: Prayer for Eddie (Read)

    Hi Paul, As we both know, any computer has it's limits as to what it can produce in the way of sound. Since you like to start your work in a notation program, I would indeed complete it, then save it as a midi file and import that into a new DP project.

    Once you have it in DP, open the SE window, (sequence editor) so you can make any changes that would be needed such as mod wheel, and velocity corrections. You do not want any volume or pan data in any of the midi tracks since you will be controlling the volume and pan with the audio mixing board (shift M). Every note needs to be listened to closely, because even though the note velocity of the samples is good, some notes blurt out because of the timbre, so those notes would need to be way lower so they match (flow) "from and to" the adjacent notes.

    If you don't record the individual instruments to audio tracks, you will not be able to add or alter EQ or any other audio plugins on any of the individual instruments. This is where the rubber meets the road for realistic mockups IMO

    Set each of the intruments in the Kontakt player to a different stereo group/buss, then you can set up as many audio tracks as you need in DP to record each one of these instruments to a separate audio track. Once the instrument/s are recorded, turn off the midi tracks, then the Mac won't have to process all those sounds from the Kontakt player, a serious load reduction to the CPU is benefitted.

    Use all of your wonderful automation features in DP for controlling the
    volume reverb and anything else that you want to change during the performance.

    Here is a "grab" pic from a small template that I set up with Rhap 2 (Jack Cannon) I have been helping him get his "two computer set-up" going. You can see how everything is laid out. Of course I am not saying you should do things exactly how I do, but if you are not using DP to it's fullest in these regards, you owe it to yourself and your music to do something very similar,... if not the same. Afterall, you do have some wonderful tools.

    You will see that the input to the audio tracks is ADAT 1-2 ADAT 3-4 etc.
    That is because my sounds come from a separate PC as I mentioned before.
    If you could buy a MOTU Traveler or 828MKII audio interface that would be great! It will not however reduce your clicks and pops. Those are coming from your processor overload. BUT,,,, when you render these midi instruments to audio tracks, your CPU load will be way way low, that's a good thing!

    I hope this helps, you will love Altiverb, it's a secret mix weapon!
    Check out the audio mixing tutorial I did for Gary's folks, he has it posted on his website... it's a hoot!

    dpDan




  6. #6

    Re: Prayer for Eddie (Read)

    EXTREMELY helpful. I actually think I really underuse DP and want to find out more. I can use the audio card inside my Ozone portable keyboard (I use it when I travel) to record real instruments into DP and as I just checked the price of the Traveler I may have to use this solution for now. I am going to put the newest piece (Prayer) through the steps you suggest and will definitely check out the tutorial. I have already noticed, in other trials, that I have so much more control of things in DP once I take the exported Finale file and manipulate it there. Again thanks for the tips and the screenshots. I actually have an old ADAT that I'm not currently using and am now considering blowing the dust off....

    Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by DPDAN
    Hi Paul, As we both know, any computer has it's limits as to what it can produce in the way of sound. Since you like to start your work in a notation program, I would indeed complete it, then save it as a midi file and import that into a new DP project.

    Once you have it in DP, open the SE window, (sequence editor) so you can make any changes that would be needed such as mod wheel, and velocity corrections. You do not want any volume or pan data in any of the midi tracks since you will be controlling the volume and pan with the audio mixing board (shift M). Every note needs to be listened to closely, because even though the note velocity of the samples is good, some notes blurt out because of the timbre, so those notes would need to be way lower so they match (flow) "from and to" the adjacent notes.

    If you don't record the individual instruments to audio tracks, you will not be able to add or alter EQ or any other audio plugins on any of the individual instruments. This is where the rubber meets the road for realistic mockups IMO

    Set each of the intruments in the Kontakt player to a different stereo group/buss, then you can set up as many audio tracks as you need in DP to record each one of these instruments to a separate audio track. Once the instrument/s are recorded, turn off the midi tracks, then the Mac won't have to process all those sounds from the Kontakt player, a serious load reduction to the CPU is benefitted.

    Use all of your wonderful automation features in DP for controlling the
    volume reverb and anything else that you want to change during the performance.

    Here is a "grab" pic from a small template that I set up with Rhap 2 (Jack Cannon) I have been helping him get his "two computer set-up" going. You can see how everything is laid out. Of course I am not saying you should do things exactly how I do, but if you are not using DP to it's fullest in these regards, you owe it to yourself and your music to do something very similar,... if not the same. Afterall, you do have some wonderful tools.

    You will see that the input to the audio tracks is ADAT 1-2 ADAT 3-4 etc.
    That is because my sounds come from a separate PC as I mentioned before.
    If you could buy a MOTU Traveler or 828MKII audio interface that would be great! It will not however reduce your clicks and pops. Those are coming from your processor overload. BUT,,,, when you render these midi instruments to audio tracks, your CPU load will be way way low, that's a good thing!

    I hope this helps, you will love Altiverb, it's a secret mix weapon!
    Check out the audio mixing tutorial I did for Gary's folks, he has it posted on his website... it's a hoot!

    dpDan
    Last edited by daerp@mac.com; 11-15-2005 at 12:04 PM. Reason: deleted screen shots from quote
    Mac Pro 2X2.8 Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xenon, 10Gb 800 MHz DDR2 FB-DIMM, OS10.6.4, Finale 2011, Digital Performer 7.1, Altiverb 6, Yamaha S90, Built-in audio, GPO, JABB, Garritan Authorized Steinway (Pro), Reason 3, M-Audio Ozone, Giovani, Symphonic Choirs, Kontakt 2, Vienna Symphonic Library. Website:http://www.paulread.ca

  7. #7

    Re: Prayer for Eddie (Read)

    A beautifully done elegy, Paul... very moving, well scored, and one of the best pieces I have heard from you.

    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .

  8. #8

    Re: Prayer for Eddie (Read)

    Thank you David. I really appreciate the compliment.
    Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by etLux
    A beautifully done elegy, Paul... very moving, well scored, and one of the best pieces I have heard from you.

    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .
    Mac Pro 2X2.8 Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xenon, 10Gb 800 MHz DDR2 FB-DIMM, OS10.6.4, Finale 2011, Digital Performer 7.1, Altiverb 6, Yamaha S90, Built-in audio, GPO, JABB, Garritan Authorized Steinway (Pro), Reason 3, M-Audio Ozone, Giovani, Symphonic Choirs, Kontakt 2, Vienna Symphonic Library. Website:http://www.paulread.ca

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