• Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Topic: Advice needed on my first "major" Giga sequencuing project

Share/Bookmark
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    London / Uzes (France)
    Posts
    46

    Advice needed on my first "major" Giga sequencuing project

    Hi guys,

    I am a relative newcomer to Giga sequencing. I have a major project I am doing for Christmas, and before I start setting up Cubase / Giga I would like some advice on the best way to do it.

    The project is a sequence of some large orchestral pieces. The articulations for each part vary so much that if I had a separate channel for every program I use I would end up with about 200 MIDI channels!!

    For example, I am using both Dan Dean and VSL solo trumpets (with VSL ensemble). I was thinking of having a MIDI channel for each trumpet (3) and one for the ensemble. BUT; trumpets 1 and 2 will use both Dan Dean V and NV programs, so if I set each giga file to its own track, I would end up with:

    Tpt 1 V (DD)
    Tpt 1 NV (DD)
    Tpt 2 V (DD)
    Tpt 2 NV (DD)
    Tpt 3 (VSL)
    Tpt Ens (VSL)

    And that's before I've even started with the various VSL articulations!

    So, should I stack them, and set up keyswitches to go between them? Eg:

    Tpt 1 (DD Tpt V and DD Tpt NV stacked)
    Tpt 2 (DD Tpt V and DD Tpt NV stacked)
    Tpt 3 (Various VSL files stacked)
    Tpt Ens (Various VSL files stacked)

    I'm using trumpets as an example, but it also applies to the rest of the instruments as well. I want to set up a "template" I can use throughout the whole project (it's the same orchestration for each piece).

    Forgive me if this is basic stuff, but up to now I haven't been doing a lot of proper sequencing with Giga, more just "playing" each line in live to an audio track. The size and complexity of this project means I have to sort myself out though

    If there are any other tips you can give me so I can make this as easy as possible I would be grateful for them. Open ended I know, but I'm feeling a little lost... I'm using GS in rewire mode into Cubase SX 3, using groups as the inputs into cubase (so I can group flutes together, horn together etc etc)

    Thanks for any advice you can offer.

    Martin

  2. #2

    Re: Advice needed on my first "major" Giga sequencuing project

    Thank you for asking this - I look forward to learning from the responses.

    My guess is you would use one midi track for the notes and another for the keyswitching. That way you can get the notes in place - allowing you to hear the gist of the composition, and then tweak the keyswitching to make it musicial and realistic.

    Ernie

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    London / Uzes (France)
    Posts
    46

    Re: Advice needed on my first "major" Giga sequencuing project

    Quote Originally Posted by ohernie
    My guess is you would use one midi track for the notes and another for the keyswitching.
    In the sequencer I would imagine so, but how about Giga? Do you have 1 channel per instrument, or should you split the instrument over several channels?

    Take a look at the VSL Brass & WW solo trumpet in "C":
    00 TrC_BASIC-SET
    01 TrC_SHORT-NOTES
    02 TrC_MEDIUM-NOTES
    03 TrC_LONG-NOTES
    04 TrC_oV_DYNAMIC-LIGHT
    04 TrC_oV_DYNAMIC-MEDIUM
    04 TrC_oV_DYNAMIC-STRONG
    07 TrC_DYNAMIC-SPECIALS
    08 TrC_mV_DYNAMIC-MEDIUM
    09 TrC_mV_DYNAMIC-STRONG
    10 TrC_TRILLS
    11 TrC_FLATTER

    To have each of those assigned to a Giga channel, and then extrapolate that to all the other instruments would (IMHO) be ridiculous. Surely better to have them all stacked (especially since GS3 allows unlimited stacking) and set up keyswitches...

    ...which incidentally brings me to another question. If you assign a keyswitch to swap between stacked instruments, do the keyswitches (if set) of that instrument work (I assume the stacked KS would have to be different - ie at the very top of the keyboard maybe...?)

    I guess there's no "one good way" of doing this and any and all approaches are valid - hopefully people who have had experiences can post their opinions so others can learn from them... Personally I'm up against a hellish deadline (made worse by the courier company di*king around with the delivery of my new PC!!! - tomorrow's Monday. I live in hope ) so will only have a chance to experiment and find my "best" way of doing things after Christmas when things calm down!


  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    London / Uzes (France)
    Posts
    46

    Re: Advice needed on my first "major" Giga sequencuing project

    To elaborate, and hopefully make my questions clearer; if my assumptions as discussed above are accurate, I have planned my MIDI tracks (excluding elec piano from FM7 and saxophones from SaxLab) as follows:

    ===================

    Piccolo (DD)
    Flute 1 (DD & VSL Various)
    Flute 2 (DD & VSL Various)
    Oboe (DD & VSL Various)
    Cor Anglais (DD)
    Clarinet 1 (DD)
    Clarinet 2 (DD)
    Bass Clarinet (DD)
    Bassoon (DD)

    Horn 1 (DD & SAM)
    Horn 2 (DD & SAM)
    Horn 3 (DD & SAM)
    Horn 4 (DD & SAM)
    Horn Ensemble (SAM)
    Trumpet 1 (DD V/NV/Picc & VSL Various)
    Trumpet 2 (DD V/NV & VSL Various)
    Trumpet 3 (DD V/NV & VSL Various)
    Trumpet Ensemble (VSL Various)
    Trombone 1 (DD)
    Trombone 2 (DD)
    Trombone Ensemble (SAM)
    Bass Trombone (DD & SAM)
    Tuba (DD)

    Timpani (UOP Medium Hard Timpani)
    Timpani Rolls (UOP Timpani Rolls)
    Timpani Cresc (??)
    Chimes (??)
    Xylophone (??)
    Glockenspiel (??)
    Marimba (??)
    Vibes (??)

    Harp (GH)
    Piano (Holy Grail)
    Celeste (XSample)

    Bass Guitar (Scarbee)

    Solo Violin (DD)
    Violins 1 (VSL Various)
    Violins 2 (VSL Various)
    Violas (VSL Various)
    Celli (VSL Various)
    Basses (VSL Various)

    Men's Choir (VOTA)
    Women's Choir (VOTA)

    ===================

    The sample names in ( ) show the way I will stack instruments in GS. I believe this will give me the maximum flexibility re: samples, so I can choose the best for that particular musical moment as I go (my choice of samples is based on my favourites from my various collections).

    So, I will have a MIDI track in Cubase for all the above, paired with another MIDI track for each which will hold keyswitching and performance "admin" information.

    The group outputs of GS will then be rewired back into Cubase, and mixed from there (I'm avoiding GigaPulse entirely on this and using plugins that I am comfortable with for FX - there's enough new stuff for me on this project without tearing the a**e out of it! )

    I want to group the Giga channels in such a way that I see an almost conventionally mic'd orchestra (eg: timps together, instruments and the equivalent ensemble instruments together etc) when I mix down in Cubase, simply because that is what I know.

    Sorry for the long posts, but I hope I'm making myself clearer with them rather than muddying the waters!

    Merci!

    Martin

  5. #5

    Re: Advice needed on my first "major" Giga sequencuing project

    Looks like a reasonable approach. As you note, many ways could work.

    A couple of things to consider as you refine how you work:

    keyswitches do not survive when starting a longer piece in the middle, while most sequencers will read back to find the last appropriate program change == so program (patch) change commands are sometimes easier to manage than keyswitches

    you can easily get subtle beneficial variations in your lines by using two gigastudio channels per instrument line. You can use slightly different volume, panning, pitch bend values.

    combining those two points, I usually work with pairs of channels and use program changes. so "flute 1" on my score is two midi tracks in the sequencer, with program changes changing the articulations as appropriate, and as many flute instruments loaded in gigastudio as necessary. "flute 2" is two more midi tracks, two more channels. doing it this way, woodwinds in 3 fits in gigastudio orchestra port1; brass in port 2, overflowing to part of port 3 for bigger brass; timpani and percussion in port 3. Because I usually allow for string divisi, and use parallel strands, layering different libraries, strings take more channels; violin I divisi spread across port 4; violin II divisi port 5; viola port 6; 'celli port 7; double bass port 8.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    London / Uzes (France)
    Posts
    46

    Re: Advice needed on my first "major" Giga sequencuing project

    Thanks Gugliel.

    I was always under the impression that program changes cut off the previous sound, but keyswitching didn't. I understand the logic behind going with program changes rather than KS though - as you said you don't want to have to playback from the beginning every time you want to listen to a bar in the middle... Will check it out.

    you can easily get subtle beneficial variations in your lines by using two gigastudio channels per instrument line. You can use slightly different volume, panning, pitch bend values.
    I see what you mean. This is something I will definitely look into after Christmas. I don't really have the time right now unfortunately (I have to get these numebrs done)

    Cheers,

    Martin

  7. #7

    Re: Advice needed on my first "major" Giga sequencuing project

    Quote Originally Posted by gugliel
    keyswitches do not survive when starting a longer piece in the middle, while most sequencers will read back to find the last appropriate program change == so program (patch) change commands are sometimes easier to manage than keyswitches
    Of course, by making the keyswitches legato there is no problem, as long as the appropriate "chase" is set.

    D

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    London / Uzes (France)
    Posts
    46

    Re: Advice needed on my first "major" Giga sequencuing project

    Daryl, I'm not sure I understand - how do you mean make them legato?

    Thanks,

    M

  9. #9

    Re: Advice needed on my first "major" Giga sequencuing project

    Make sure that the keyswitch note is so long that it goes almost up to the next one. That way when your sequencer chases notes, the "note on" is still active, so it plays the appropriate sound.

    D

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    London / Uzes (France)
    Posts
    46

    Re: Advice needed on my first "major" Giga sequencuing project

    Ah I see - thanks

Go Back to forum

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •