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Topic: Ivory vs. PMI Old Lady

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  1. #1

    Ivory vs. PMI Old Lady

    I have reviewed the previous multitude of threads comparing Ivory to other sampled pianos and I am in a similar quandry of wondering whether purchasing Ivory will bring me closer to acoustic piano nirvana compared to my current sampled piano (Old Lady). Of course, the MP3 samples of Ivory are amazing, but so are the MP3's of Old Lady, and I am disappointed in Old Lady. It is far better than the stock sounds of my Kawai MP9000 grand piano, but the midrange (C4-C6) still sounds artificial and, well, sampled. My main application is jazz, and in a gig situation I frequently find myself using the Rhodes samples since Rhodes is a much easier instrument to sample and seems more expressive than the Old Lady. We all know that sampled pianos will never be the same as the "real thing", but before dishing out $350 I'd appreciate some input as to whether I'll be disappointed (again) or amazed. By the way, the hardware I'm using is fairly high-end, and not likely a factor in my current "disillusionment".

  2. #2

    Re: Ivory vs. PMI Old Lady

    In my experience (and I do own both) I am much happier with Ivory than Old Lady.

    Ivory is the only sampled piano I use now.

    My previous favorite was the PMI Bos.

    YMMV though.

  3. #3

    Re: Ivory vs. PMI Old Lady

    Hi

    I have recently made a few MP3 comparison tests with Ivory and PMI pianos.
    Ivory-PMI
    It does not show more than how each piano plays the same midi file (which is a bad comparison I know) but it can give you an idea what to expect from Ivory and our other pianos. Please have a listen and let me know what you think.
    Best regards,
    Michiel Post


  4. #4

    Re: Ivory vs. PMI Old Lady

    Well, if you have very specific needs for your piano sounds, the best thing would be to check all the libraries/plugs with your own hands and ears. Piano emulation is a very "complicated" and "multi-angle" topic. I have good feelings with both PMI and Art Vista's products. Not impressed by Ivory yet.

    By the way, also the midi keyboard controller can be important....

  5. #5

    Re: Ivory vs. PMI Old Lady

    Obviously this is a highly subjective subject. Although their are many fine libraries out there, and certainly those by Messrs. Post and Worra are among them, IMHO if you have Ivory and Art Vista Virtual Grand I can't imagine a musical scenario where you could not tweak the sound to your liking.

    Not bad for $500 when you consider it costs at least $125 in L.A. just to tune a decent piano, never mind buy it and have the mics to record it properly,
    Composer, Logic Certified Trainer, Level 2,
    author of "Going Pro with Logic Pro 9."

    www.jayasher.com

  6. #6

    Re: Ivory vs. PMI Old Lady

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Post
    Hi

    I have recently made a few MP3 comparison tests with Ivory and PMI pianos.
    Ivory-PMI
    It does not show more than how each piano plays the same midi file (which is a bad comparison I know) but it can give you an idea what to expect from Ivory and our other pianos. Please have a listen and let me know what you think.
    Thanks!

    What's with the Ivory sustain? Please explain. In clip #3 the Ivory sounds seem to cut in and out, I presumed it was a midi/recording anomoly but I gather it's not.

    Any chance of adding in the Galaxy and Akoustik ? Or making the midi files available so others can?

    Ernie

  7. #7

    Re: Ivory vs. PMI Old Lady

    B3Boy,

    You're the only person that can really answer this question to your own satisfaction. Both packages are great, but they both have very different sounding pianos. Even if we assume that both completely deliver on their promises, it still comes down to the very personal decision of what you want a piano to sound like.

    Let's talk about jazz: Do you want your pianos to sound more like something from a Horace Silver recording or a Chick Corea recording? You see what I mean? Neither is wrong; just a matter of personal taste.

  8. #8

    Re: Ivory vs. PMI Old Lady

    Quote Originally Posted by ohernie
    Thanks!

    What's with the Ivory sustain? Please explain. In clip #3 the Ivory sounds seem to cut in and out, I presumed it was a midi/recording anomoly but I gather it's not.

    Any chance of adding in the Galaxy and Akoustik ? Or making the midi files available so others can?

    Ernie
    Ivory sustain is the isolated sound of what is added when you use the damper pedal. Ivory uses an effect algoritme for sustain pedal resonance, not sustain samples or convolution as you can hear. The isolated effect is what you hear when a damped and non-damped note of equal amplitude are played back in perfect antiphase. The additional effect results.
    If I find the time I will make this midi file available, though you must remember that playing a sound yourself is a totally different picture than have a midi file play on a sound.
    The cut "in and out" is a polyphony issue I think. Demos were made on a single CPU G5. Ivory has less voices available than Kontakt. Likely the 32 bit file structure demands more recources. In a normal situation polyphony is no issue with Ivory. K2, when you use it´s sympathetic resonance scripts is worse anyway.
    Best regards,
    Michiel Post


  9. #9

    Re: Ivory vs. PMI Old Lady

    And I totally agree: you can never have too many piano samples!

    Serious, every recording is different (microphone plot, distance, overall instrument image, playability, amount of resonance etc). Having more different sounds on your musical palette will give you much more possibilities, without spending hours and hours of tweaking, looking for something that isn´t there to begin with.
    Best regards,
    Michiel Post


  10. #10

    Re: Ivory vs. PMI Old Lady

    I appreciate everybody's response to my question. Of course, such comparisons are very subjective but I figured that if Ivory was as superior as some of the fanfare would suggest, then all users of Ivory would prefer it to other sampled pianos; this clearly isn't the case. With due respect to Mr. Post, the low end and high end of Old Lady is spectacular; my jazz improvisational lines tend to be in the midrange and it just doesn't feel right. In response to some previous posts, I like the Keith Jarrett/Bill Evans sound, and my controller is a Kawai MP9000. Thanks again for your help.

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