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Topic: Aargh! Help with Finale 2006 volume issues

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  1. #1

    Unhappy Aargh! Help with Finale 2006 volume issues

    I'm sure someone has answered this before (but I can't find where).... so forgive me in my desperation.

    But can anyone tell me WHY (oh why oh why) Finale 2006 will play a piece with some volumes set unusually low? I've had this problem before with 2005 with GPO too: I'd have to "touch" the modwheel after playback begins, and then suddenly the volume jumps to the correct level. It's like the modwheel is moving, but the instruments don't respond! (Or rather, some dont; Clarinet and double basses are fine, Violas and Celli lush mute aren't responsive).

    I've tried switching everything in options, etc. on the GPO Kontakt player... what to do?

    And part of the (unhappy) new problem with Fin2k6 is that you can't adjust any of this in real time on the Kontakt player. Instead, you're forced to close windows before Playback. Bad idea.

    Help! Thanks!

    Steve Main
    Steve Main
    stmain@aol.com
    www.stephenmain.com

  2. #2

    Re: Aargh! Help with Finale 2006 volume issues

    What do you mean, when you say "you can't adjust any of this in real time on the Kontakt player. Instead, you're forced to close windows before Playback"? When I keep the Player open during playback, I can manipulate seemingly everything but the Modwheel.

  3. #3

    Re: Aargh! Help with Finale 2006 volume issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickie Fønshauge
    What do you mean, when you say "you can't adjust any of this in real time on the Kontakt player. Instead, you're forced to close windows before Playback"? When I keep the Player open during playback, I can manipulate seemingly everything but the Modwheel.
    Nope. I just now opened Finale 2006, clicked on "Midi" to open the "Native Instruments VST setup" box, then clicked on the "Edit" box to open up Bank 1 of the Kontakt player, and now when I try to hit Finale's playback button, it won't work, and instead it wants me to close the Kontakt player. That's what I mean.

    And my volume/switch problems persist!

    Thanks for any help.
    S
    Steve Main
    stmain@aol.com
    www.stephenmain.com

  4. #4

    Re: Aargh! Help with Finale 2006 volume issues

    You don't have to close the Player, just the "Native Instruments VST setup" dialog box. Closing that won't close the Player.

    I'm not quite sure, I understand your problem. If it's the balance between instruments, you should manage this with the sliders in Studio View or the Mixer. Just make sure you have "Use std. CC#7/CC#10 volume and pan" checked (should be lime green) in the GPO Players Options.

    If this is not your problem, then I'm afraid I don't quite understand what it is.

  5. #5

    Re: Aargh! Help with Finale 2006 volume issues

    Hey Nickie, thanks for all your help -- I really appreciate it (and from others, too!)...

    I'm just about exhausted and ready to give up on Finale 2006. I'm sorry they released the program when they did, frankly. I've had so many bad experiences, conflicting pieces of advice (for example: I've read that the "CC 7 and 10" switches in the GPO options should be checked, but also I've read they should be unchecked). And of course, since Finale isn't backward compatible, I can't go back and re-open the files in 2005b. What a shame.

    Here's a recap of my troubles, sorry to be so repetitive, but if there's any last thoughts you or anyone has, I'd love to know!

    1. Volume issues. I'm not sure how to be clearer than I've been. The problem is that I've set the volume levels on the kontakt player for each instrument (the little dial on the far right), and yet, sometimes when I hit playback, my settings seem to be ignored in favor of some other setting (louder or softer).

    2. Mod wheel issues: I find that when playback starts, I have to "touch" the mod-wheel with my mouse cursor in order to get the instruments to jump up to the right volume (this may or may not be the same problem as above, I can't tell). These problems especially seem to appear in section strings instruments.

    3. SOME finale keyswitches appear to work, others don't. Still can't get my double basses to "pizz." when I type pizz. in the score. (Should those expressions be "dump" as they are by default? Or should they be set to "none"?).

    4. Do I understand that we should add all instruments from the "Notation" section of the GPO folders? It doesn't seem to make any difference that I can hear... nor does it seem to clear up any of the above problems.

    Anyway, whatever help you can give would be great! I'm hoping that Coda/Finale releases an update soon. And I'm also hoping that they don't release such confusing/potentially buggy stuff in the future. It really slows down my projects
    Steve Main
    Steve Main
    stmain@aol.com
    www.stephenmain.com

  6. #6

    Re: Aargh! Help with Finale 2006 volume issues

    1. The volumes can be adjusted using the Mixer if you are using the VST GPO feature. If you are using GPO Studio, I'm not sure.

    2. I have not had this occur, but I must ask the obvious question. You do have dynamics at the beggining as each instrument enters?

    3. Not sure what you mean by 'dump', but if you are creating an expression make sure that there are no spaces or anything after "pizz." It will not recognize the expressions, otherwise. If you are using the 'Notation' GPO sounds then Unified Keyswitched and Controller 68 must be active. If you are not, then uncheck Unified Keyswitches and use controller 64 for legato.

    4. The Notation version has unified keyswitches and the revised legato system. You will notice especially if you compose for strings/winds/brass in combination with piano or other instruments that need sustain pedal simultaneously.


    If the keyswitched are still giving you troubles, you should contact Robert Piechard.
    Jess Hendricks
    DMA Student and Teaching Asst in Music Theory/ Composition at the University of Miami
    Personal Website

  7. #7

    Re: Aargh! Help with Finale 2006 volume issues

    Quote Originally Posted by stmain

    1. Volume issues. I'm not sure how to be clearer than I've been. The problem is that I've set the volume levels on the kontakt player for each instrument (the little dial on the far right), and yet, sometimes when I hit playback, my settings seem to be ignored in favor of some other setting (louder or softer).

    2. Mod wheel issues: I find that when playback starts, I have to "touch" the mod-wheel with my mouse cursor in order to get the instruments to jump up to the right volume (this may or may not be the same problem as above, I can't tell). These problems especially seem to appear in section strings instruments.

    Steve Main

    Steve, I've been experimenting with some of the Player dials recently and Finale Human Playback does alter some of these. Watch what happens to the volume of the contrabass when you have HP soften basses checked in Finale. Or the panning is reset when auto panning is checked. I'm not sure this addresses the issues you are experiencing but it's something to be aware of.

    And yes, for some reason you do need to activate the mod wheel before playback. I insert an expression to do this at the beginning of each line.

    Graham

  8. #8

    Re: Aargh! Help with Finale 2006 volume issues

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamKeitch
    And yes, for some reason you do need to activate the mod wheel before playback. I insert an expression to do this at the beginning of each line.
    That I don't understand. I never had to touch the modwheel.

  9. #9

    Re: Aargh! Help with Finale 2006 volume issues

    Quote Originally Posted by stmain
    3. SOME finale keyswitches appear to work, others don't. Still can't get my double basses to "pizz." when I type pizz. in the score. (Should those expressions be "dump" as they are by default? Or should they be set to "none"?).
    Steve, when you use Human Playback, you should set text expression playback to "None". This is the advice Robert Pièchaud gave on the Finale Forums, and he ought to know.

    There is a "Technique Expressions with Abbr" library with expressions like pizz and arco. I'll advice you to use this. I used it for the contra bass solo KS, and it works. It should of course also work, if you create your own expressions, as long as they are spelled correctly. But why bother, when you can have them served on a silver plate.

  10. #10
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    Re: Aargh! Help with Finale 2006 volume issues

    Quote Originally Posted by jesshmusic
    1. The volumes can be adjusted using the Mixer if you are using the VST GPO feature. If you are using GPO Studio, I'm not sure.
    (...)
    3. Not sure what you mean by 'dump', but if you are creating an expression make sure that there are no spaces or anything after "pizz." It will not recognize the expressions, otherwise. (...)
    1: Normally, in Finale 2006, you must deal with Volume (=instrument balance) through Finale's Mixer, not directly within the Player: Finale is in control. If you want to keep the Player's control on Vol and Pan, you must uncheck "Use Standard CC#7 and 10 Vol and Pan" from the Player's prefs (and then restart the programmes). It's just up to you.

    It's better to use VST/AU with Finale 2006 rather than GPO Studio. If you use GPO Studio, you must choose "Always" from HP Prefs/Activate GPO Support (default is Auto Detect). Also, you must use the "Notation" folder of the latest GPO Full update, because the Kewswitches are unified (especially for strings). If you don't use the Notation folder for some reason, uncheck "Unified KS" from HP Prefs.

    3: No, to the contrary, HP is case-, accent-, punctuation, -unsensitive. You can write:
    "pizz.", "pizz", "pizz. ", "Pizz.", "PIZZ.", "pizzicato", "(pizz.)", "[pizz.]", etc.
    and the result will be the same: pizz. KS.

    The other advice are all good!

    For your volume issues, stmain, it's hard to tell what's wrong without a file. Perhaps you can post it at the Finale forum (http://forum.makemusic.com/)

    I hope this helps!

    Thanks
    Robert

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