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Topic: Cannot manipulate Converted REX files..

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  1. #1

    Cannot manipulate Converted REX files..

    Did I do something wrong in Recycle or is there something I don't understand?? I imported drum wavs into Recycle and saved them as REX files. Now that they are in Stylus RMX, I cannot apply tempo change, chaos, effects, or anything else afforded by the other loops included with the program. I know I'll be glad when there's a comprehensive manual to go with this fine program. I do know that one is in the works.Hopefully we'll see it soon. Trying to skim through the videos is not a very exacting process.

  2. #2
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    Re: Cannot manipulate Converted REX files..

    Did you slice the files in Recycle before saving them as REX files?

  3. #3

    Re: Cannot manipulate Converted REX files..

    Hmmm. Maybe not. Is that where you bring the sensativity up? Could you explain further?

  4. #4
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    Re: Cannot manipulate Converted REX files..

    Yes, that's what the sensitivity knob is for. You need to create slices at all the transient peaks.

    All you have done is imported a REX file who's "slice" or subdivision, equalled the whole loop.

    I'd suggest reading a little bit of the manual before attempting to use Recycle further.

  5. #5

    Re: Cannot manipulate Converted REX files..

    Thanks Jaimo! I guess I will read more into the Recycle manual. Anything else you could point me to to speed up the process? I wasted a lot of time doing everything the wrong way. Thanks for the info.

  6. #6
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    Re: Cannot manipulate Converted REX files..

    Brock,

    Recycle is very easy to use. Be aware of 2 things though...

    - Even though the sensitivity slider will detect the majority of the slices for you, you will want to go in and listen to each slice, and make sure a subdivision hasn't been overlooked. This is all dependent on the source material though. I think you'll find a value around 70 to 80 gets most, if not all of them. Anything higher tends to add more slices than are actually transient peaks. If you need more after hitting that value, add them by hand.

    - Recycled loops won't "stretch" as far as RMX's built in library, particularly when slowing down. You should be able to drop tempo 15 to 20% from the original however, before you notice it sounding "weird". This is probably do to the technology for Recycle isn't as sophisticated as RMX's SAGE.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Patthoven's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Cannot manipulate Converted REX files..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaimo

    - Recycled loops won't "stretch" as far as RMX's built in library, particularly when slowing down. You should be able to drop tempo 15 to 20% from the original however, before you notice it sounding "weird". This is probably do to the technology for Recycle isn't as sophisticated as RMX's SAGE.
    I'm not sure if its a "different" technology at all.

    If my understanding is correct, its just that Spectrasonics recorded their core library in such a way that the "slices" were able to be distinct and seperate from each other without any "bleed-over inot each other. Then I imagine they were painstakingly checked and rechecked for resolution, fluidity, and maximum time stretchability or compression that was within the "reasonable" laws of physics (as they apply to psycho-acoustic perception anyway) in the Rex2 format.

    So unless I'm wrong( and there's always a fair chance of that...) Spectrasonics utilized ReCycle to its absolute potential in the making of of their core library for RMX . They just did a hell of a bang up job and left no stone unturned in the interpretation of the Rex2 files.

    OK, all of you who know better can tell the real story now!

  8. #8
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    Re: Cannot manipulate Converted REX files..

    Quote Originally Posted by Patthoven
    I'm not sure if its a "different" technology at all.
    You may be right. I just know what the "real world" differences are. So I wasn't preaching it so much as Gospel Truth, but to look out for it, and be aware of it!

  9. #9

    Re: Cannot manipulate Converted REX files..

    This has been an ongoing 'debate' between Matt from Samples4 and Eric and I imagine others.
    Matt contends that it is really recycle that Spectrasonics use and call it Groove Control.... Eric doesn't deny that it starts off by using recycle or that Recycle is in the process but that they are other proprietary tools at work as well.

    who knows......of course I believe Eric. It takes too long to release Sage products for it to be just recycle to me..and quite frankly from this forum and so many others, I don't think lying is part of Eric's qualities.

    rsp
    richard sven
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  10. #10

    Re: Cannot manipulate Converted REX files..

    Here's an excerpt from the upcoming RMX manual that explains the difference between ReCycle REX files and the Groove Control system....hopefully, this will clarify the differences:

    Groove Control® vs. REX Files

    REX files are often confused with Groove Control® because both share the basic concepts of sliced audio and MIDI files. A REX file is something anyone can create from a standard audio file loop by using Propellerhead's ReCycle™ application since it is an open format, while a Groove Control native SAGE file is a closed format and only something that Spectrasonics can create.

    Stylus RMX supports the REX file format by allowing you to import REX files via the SAGE Converter application. This stand-alone utility makes the process of using REX files in RMX very convenient. However, REX files may not work as well at different tempos compared to the Groove Control files in the Core Library and Expansion libraries.

    So what's missing from a REX File that a Groove Control file has? Here are some facts that will help explain the difference:

    REX Files are inherently limited by three factors:

    • Limited Tool set
    The only application that can create a REX file is ReCycle, so the limitations of the tools available in ReCycle for manipulating the audio slices are also the limitations of what level of quality can be achieved in a REX file. ReCycle is an older application and no other plug-ins or audio editing applications can be utilized in the creation of REX files. For certain types of simpler percussive loop material, ReCycle has an adequate set of tools for a skilled user to potentially create a quality sliced audio file. For more complex mixes or tonal loops, ReCycle's tools are not adequately suited to produce a usable sliced audio file.

    • The experience level of the “Slicer”
    The skill level of the person who is doing the slicing work is another very important factor in achieving the best results from a REX file. While high quality audio slicing may not be an artform, it is certainly a skilled craft that takes a lot of patience to learn and is far more rare and difficult than most people realize. If the preparation of a REX file is rushed, not sliced properly or carefully tested, the results will likely be disappointing and nowhere near the desired end musical result.

    • No guaranteed review process
    REX is simply an audio file format, not any guarantee of musical results that Propellerheads checks, tests or reviews. Anyone can create a REX file and the end musical results can range from fantastic to terrible depending on the source material and the skill and experience of the person doing the slicing work in ReCycle. Unfortunately, many commercial REX libraries are poorly sliced, while others are sliced very well. REX files are a case of “Garbage IN, Garbage OUT”, so your mileage can vary a great deal.


    Groove Control® is not limited in these three important factors:

    • Unlimited Tools
    With our proprietary Groove Control development method, we are able to use a huge variety of tools and any combination of commercial applications to achieve the best results for each type of source material. This allows us to try many things until the end result is exactly what we want with no artifacts and the best possible sound quality. Many different processing methods are used on the audio, along with a lot of "hand-tweaking" and some custom software. This ensures that every slice of every groove sounds great and can stand on its own. As a result, GC grooves can be played at a much wider range of tempos while still keeping the highest standard of audio quality. Even complex GC grooves with ambient elements sound great when undergoing dramatic speed changes.

    • Highly experienced “Slicers”
    Groove Control files can only be created by a special, highly-trained and experienced Groove Control audio development group at Spectrasonics that works together to continue pushing the boundaries of what is possible with sliced audio. The group spends a great deal of time sharing techniques to create the best quality results for every loop. Only Spectrasonics and ILIO Entertainments are currently authorized to produce Groove Control products.

    • Guaranteed review process
    When you see the Groove Control logo on a Spectrasonics or ILIO product, you can be sure that every groove has been carefully scrutinized with an official review process to make sure that it adheres to the highest standard of quality.

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