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Topic: Giga 3.1: Crash to BSOD when saving (new error code)

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  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Windward O'ahu, Hawai'i
    Posts
    37

    Unhappy Giga 3.1: Crash to BSOD when saving (new error code)

    Regarding the widely-discussed problem of persistent crashes to Blue-Screen-of-Death when trying to save when using Giga 3.1:

    I've started this as a new thread because I think we should try to focus on solving the problem, not bashing Giga or promoting other products. (We all realize that we can choose to use a different program if we want; some of us would just prefer to try to fix our Giga problems instead, thank you.) So please, let's try to keep postings on this thread confined to asking questions and discussing problem-solving suggestions, not just griping and whining. Thanks in advance.

    Since we upgraded to Giga 3.1 we, too, have been experiencing "crash-to-BSOD-when-saving" problems. The error message we kept getting when using "save as" to save a project was: "Page_fault_in_nonpaged_area" .

    The only way we could avoid this crash (and only sometimes) was to save the project repeatedly, every few keystrokes or mouse-clicks, over and over and over again (for example, every single time we attached or detached an instrument or adjusted a level). The crashes were NOT occurring because we were using a huge amount of system resources -- we weren't using Gigapulse at the time, for example, and often had only 2 or 3 instruments loaded.

    We realize that "save after every keystroke" is not how anyone should have to work. Of course, it is our usual practice to save frequently while working on a project -- for instance, we don't just stack and stack and stack, waiting until the very end to save -- but the effort required to keep 3.1 from crashing was obviously not what Giga's developers intended. There definitely is a problem.

    So we decided to completely uninstall 3.1 and reinstall 3.04 to see if the BSOD problem persisted. Then if it would run without crashing, we planned to download 3.1 and try it again. But we never made it that far.

    Here's what we did, step-by-step:

    1. Burned a back-up image of the system using Symantec Ghost (important!)
    2. Uninstalled Giga using the Windows uninstaller.
    3. Without rebooting, ran GigaClean, then manually removed Giga icons, etc.
    4. Rebooted and verified that Windows XP was properly tweaked (pretty much the same as the more important items suggested in http://www.musicxp.net/tuning_tips.php; our system arrived "pre-tweaked" from Carillon so we kept their tweaks in place).
    5. Reinstalled Giga 3.04.

    So far, so good. BUT, when we started Giga 3.04 and then opened Cubase, the system instantly crashed to BSOD and we got this stop code: "IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL". This same crash happened without fail on two successive attempts. The stop code, just in case anyone understands them, was: "STOP: 0X000000D1 (0X027AEF95, 0X00000002, 0X000000001, 0X7C9114B6".

    So we restored the system using the burned image from Ghost. We're back to Giga 3.1 and still having the original BSOD crash problem ("Page_fault_in_nonpaged_area").

    Here are our system specs:

    Intel D925XCV (200MHz bus clock), BIOS date 08/19/2004
    3.2 GHz Pentium 4 w/ 16 KB primary, 1 MB secondary cache
    2 GB memory (4 x 512 MB)

    Windows XP Pro, SP2 (Build 2600), tweaked as discussed above

    120GB Seagate 7200rpm Barracuda SATA drive
    (partitioned C=20 GB, D=100 GB) as Drive 0, FAT 32
    320 GB SATA RAID as Drive 1, NTFS
    LaCie 400GB external USB-2 drive (for file storage and archive only)
    NEC ND-3500AG DVD-RW

    Frontier Dakota PCI audio card
    Frontier Montana expansion card (for Dakota)
    Frontier Sierra external MIDI/SMPTE expansion board
    RME ADI-8 DS external A/D-D/A converter

    2 Radeon X300 display adapters
    2 Princeton VL1716(ANA) 17” monitors

    Does anyone have ideas as to why the system crashed after reloading Giga 3.04? Does anyone understand what sorts of conflicts/issues would cause the IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL error? My initial suspicion is that it might have something to do with the Frontier Design Dakota card, but I can't go beyond there. (I verified that we were using the latest drivers for the Dakota card both before and after reloading Giga 3.04.)

    Any helpful suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

    Aloha,
    --jt
    justin thyme

  2. #2

    Re: Giga 3.1: Crash to BSOD when saving (new error code)

    Quote Originally Posted by justin thyme
    Does anyone understand what sorts of conflicts/issues would cause the IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL error? My initial suspicion is that it might have something to do with the Frontier Design Dakota card, but I can't go beyond there. (I verified that we were using the latest drivers for the Dakota card both before and after reloading Giga 3.04.)
    'Page fault in non-paged area' typically points to defective memory or hardware. 'IRQL not less' etc. also implicates a driver trying to access memory it does not have permission for, again pointing the finger at hardware or poorly written drivers.

    I would follow your hunch about the soundcard, pull it from the machine, remove all trace of the old drivers, and then either try with another card, a fresh Frontier driver install, or possibly an older version of the Frontier drivers if you have them.

    (It COULD point to problems with Gigs' installation, but given that the Frontier was present in both 3.04 and 3.10 scenarios and you Giga-cleaned between, it suggests that the card is the common factor in both crashes.)

    FWIW, i'm not seeing any 'save' crashes with 3.1 here.

    HTH.

  3. #3

    Wink Re: Giga 3.1: Crash to BSOD when saving (new error code)

    Dear Justin.

    Not sure if this is a factor, but in my install of GIGA3.1 I got errors because my GSP's were saving to the "D" drive which in my and many others' case is a small partition of the "C" reserved for the Restore info in case I need to restore.
    I had crashes because this drive (partition) was actually FULL, due to Giga install dumping a ton of Gigapulse files into it.
    I uninstalled and when it wanted to load this contecnt I paid attention and hit "Browse" and put it all on my Sample drive (F), and voila! No more crashing. Check it out!

    Also it seems your drives have swapped drive letters.. Why would you allocate >100Gb to the Restore and only 20Gbn to the entire (very important) program drive? I would call Carillon and ask them if the drive letters are correct!

    Mahalo!

    Mikey

  4. #4

    Re: Giga 3.1: Crash to BSOD when saving (new error code)

    Ash is right. The PAGE_FAULT thing points to RAM, the IRQL points to hardware. Your underlying cause is likely hardware, or a driver problem. Giga is a great hardware stress tester!

    You might download prime95 and run it to check your RAM. The problem might also be your soundcard or video card. Make sure you have the latest BIOS and drivers for all of the above.

    Another "trick" is to slow down your CPU or RAM timing a bit to see if that fixes things. You may have something that's on edge.

    Best of luck solving the problem. (FYI, my Giga installation doesn't blue screen. It works great on a solid, streamlined machine.)

    -JF

  5. #5

    Re: Giga 3.1: Crash to BSOD when saving (new error code)

    i am not sure if i really understand what you mean (my english).
    are you saying that you first install 3.1 then you get the bsod on save, then unistall 3.1 and reinstall 3.04 and have the same bdso behavior as with 3.1????

    to your question: there is mostly only 2 componets which are causing problems:
    bad memory or bad driver
    to test the memory use prime95 and run it about 15min after that you can bes ure your memory is ok if its not give it better timings and more power (voltage like 2.7v). irq less or equls is a typical driver problem caused by gigastudio drivers itself. i could be your audiocard but its probably Gigastudio and as we all know GS3.1 is not very stable just avoid it. Or yyou are saying after you went back to 3.04 and have the same problem... then i dont know, probably some drive did not get delted right after gigaclean or the like. maybe then you should do a clean install.
    Digital AudionetworX

    ______________________________
    http://www.digital-audionetworx.de
    mac - pc - gigastudio
    berlin - germany

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Windward O'ahu, Hawai'i
    Posts
    37

    Re: Giga 3.1: Crash to BSOD when saving (new error code)

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital AudionetworX
    i am not sure if i really understand what you mean (my english).
    are you saying that you first install 3.1 then you get the bsod on save, then unistall 3.1 and reinstall 3.04 and have the same bdso behavior as with 3.1????
    The BSOD error after 3.1 upgrade was PAGE_FAULT_IN_NON_PAGED_AREA.
    The BSOD error after going back to 3.04 was IRQL_LESS_OR_EQUAL.
    Now that we restored to 3.1, we do not get PAGE_FAULT but we get IRQL_LESS_THAN errors again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital AudionetworX
    to your question: there is mostly only 2 componets which are causing problems:
    bad memory or bad driver
    to test the memory use prime95 and run it about 15min after that you can bes ure your memory is ok if its not give it better timings and more power (voltage like 2.7v). irq less or equls is a typical driver problem caused by gigastudio drivers itself. i could be your audiocard but its probably Gigastudio and as we all know GS3.1 is not very stable just avoid it. Or yyou are saying after you went back to 3.04 and have the same problem... then i dont know, probably some drive did not get delted right after gigaclean or the like. maybe then you should do a clean install.
    The memory has been checked and is fine. Because hyperthreading is enabled, we ran 2 simultaneous instances of sp2004.exe (IMHO, better than prime95) to really give the processor and memory a thorough workout. These ran for 5 or 6 hours without finding any processor or memory problems.

    Now we're debating what the next step should be.

    Any other ideas from anyone?

    Aloha,
    --jt
    justin thyme

  7. #7

    Re: Giga 3.1: Crash to BSOD when saving (new error code)

    i never heard about yyour audiointerface and i only use rme and rarely m-audio.
    you say your problem is when gs is runing and you try to open cubase?

    maybe your audiohardware is not fully multiclient ready or bugy with both apps?
    at least you should try to assign different out for both apps.
    Digital AudionetworX

    ______________________________
    http://www.digital-audionetworx.de
    mac - pc - gigastudio
    berlin - germany

  8. #8

    Re: Giga 3.1: Crash to BSOD when saving (new error code)

    i never heard about your audiointerface and i only use rme and rarely m-audio.
    you say your problem is when gs is runing and you try to open cubase?

    maybe your audiohardware is not fully multiclient ready or bugy with both apps?

    try to use rewire see what hapends and then dissable the rewire option in gs and/or try to load gigastudio first and then cubase using different outs for both apps.
    if this is not changing anything try to get a rme card for testing.
    could you send a minidumb???
    Digital AudionetworX

    ______________________________
    http://www.digital-audionetworx.de
    mac - pc - gigastudio
    berlin - germany

  9. #9

    Re: Giga 3.1: Crash to BSOD when saving (new error code)

    Justin:

    I suggest looking at how you're using your audio ports and drivers. I don't have those particular cards myself but I do have a Tascam FW1884 whose drivers were written by Frontier. I had problems when pointing my daw/sequencer at the same audio out port as GS3 was using. Tascam recommended I point my sequencer at Audio 1-2 out and point GS3 at Audio 3-4 out while patching the 3-4 out to the 1-2 inputs for monitoring which indeed cured the problem. This issue caused cracking at 88.2K and 96K in one channel but never caused a crash. Might be harder to implement with your setup since it looks like you have mostly ADAT i/o and only one spidif.

    The other thing I had problems with was using asio in the sequencer while running GS3. I had better luck using WDM but I use Sonar, not Cubase. And I was trying to solve my problem above which might have been the source of the asio trouble too. Whatever it was, the asio issue caused crashes similar to what you describe.

    Howard

  10. #10

    Re: Giga 3.1: Crash to BSOD when saving (new error code)

    here are the drivers which probably caused the bsods
    the first looks like a av related software? or is this ms too?

    the second it from tascam, i asked them a couple times but never got a response could it be that it was not ecistant in gs2.5? if so i guess its gigapulse related???

    the last is from your audiocard. what now comes in my mind that gigaclean maybe is not working right and you have mixed up drivers on your system.

    also: when are you getting the bsod just on save???


    Mini081405-01.dmp
    Probably caused by : FILESPY.sys ( FILESPY+1365 )



    Mini081105-01.dmp
    Probably caused by : ew.sys ( ew+1d2d2 )


    Mini072305-01.dmp
    Probably caused by : Dakota.sys ( Dakota+11bea )
    Digital AudionetworX

    ______________________________
    http://www.digital-audionetworx.de
    mac - pc - gigastudio
    berlin - germany

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