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Topic: Copyright issues with JABB mock-ups

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  1. #1

    Copyright issues with JABB mock-ups

    What is the general opinion on copyright/PRS issues for people who will want to post mock-ups of contemporary jazz charts on the demo forum?

    As there is no monetary gain, is there an issue? Or could such demos be seen as a sort of advertising for JABB and require permissions to be gained before posting?
    Richard N.

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  2. #2
    Senior Member Styxx's Avatar
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    Re: Copyright issues with JABB mock-ups

    It is always interesting to see where the topic of copyright issues goes. For myself, I got used to paying royalties that also covered the writer’s copyrights when producing a musical. As for JABB "Mock-ups", I believe one should write to the writers or company that holds the rights for permission if it isn't "public domain".
    Styxx

  3. #3

    Re: Copyright issues with JABB mock-ups

    Technically it is a violation of copyright to post copyrighted material, even if you aren't making any money. However, the question that really matters is . . . will anyone care? People have posted their orchestrations of movie themes for quite a while, and while that is technically a violation of copyright, I don't think the record companies are sitting in the expensive chairs saying "drat, we're losing money from those Northern Sounds posts!" Now, if Gary were to use one of the mock-ups for advertising without permission from the copyright holder, it's much more likely to be noticed . . . of course.

    So I doubt there would be much of an issue . . . you could write them to be safe, though.
    Sean Patrick Hannifin
    My MP3s | My Melody Generator | my album
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  4. #4

    Re: Copyright issues with JABB mock-ups

    In my personal experience I have always found it easier to ask for forgiveness rather than permission. This is probably a good argument for checking first.

  5. #5
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    Re: Copyright issues with JABB mock-ups

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard N.
    What is the general opinion on copyright/PRS issues for people who will want to post mock-ups of contemporary jazz charts on the demo forum?
    I've been wondering the same thing. I would assume that it's less of an issue with older pieces that are still under copyright, as opposed to doing mockups of Gordon Goodwin's charts.

    Either way, if you post something on web-space that you control, you're resposible for it. When it doubt, play it safe and write original pieces.

    Jeff

  6. #6

    Re: Copyright issues with JABB mock-ups

    As far as works under copyright and the web. You have to concern yourself with two issues.

    If you have an ASCAP Web License, that allows you to stream your rendering. These "performances", as they are classified, should be counted and reported as part of your Web License renewal. So far I've never gone over the limit of my $264 yearly web license.

    NOW, if you wanna stream that work, and let your web visitors HAVE a copy of the work, that's distribution, so in addition to the ASCAP web license that allows for "performances", you'll need to contact the Harry Fox Agency to obtain a Mechanical License to allow for the distribution of said work.

    Plain enough?

    Stevemitchell

  7. #7
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    Re: Copyright issues with JABB mock-ups

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard N.
    What is the general opinion on copyright/PRS issues for people who will want to post mock-ups of contemporary jazz charts on the demo forum?

    As there is no monetary gain, is there an issue? Or could such demos be seen as a sort of advertising for JABB and require permissions to be gained before posting?
    Richard,

    It's important to be mindful of intellectual property rights. With classical music a great body of work was in the public domain. Jazz is a newer art form (especially big band) and many of the popular tunes are protected.

    In order to post big band arangements, it would be best if:

    1. The big band arrangement is a user's arrangement of a song that is in the public domain (like Little Brown Jug, etc).
    2. It is a user's original big band composition
    3. We have permission from the composer and arranger.

    For USERS to post their rendition of a protected work is debatable - even though it has been common practice for many years on forums without incident AFAIK. It can be argued that an excerpt of a work is 'fair use' and that it is for the user's educational purposes and not intended to commercial purposes. The work would be an exceprt, posted by a user (not me) for critique and education on a public forum. I would not be permitted, however, to post the work on the GPO website.

    This is my understanding and perhaps there are experts out there who can shed some light on the this.

    Gary Garritan

  8. #8

    Re: Copyright issues with JABB mock-ups

    Hey Gary - With much respect, in my detailed dealings with ASCAP and HarryFox, I learned that a rendering of any protected work that's posted to a website that allows streaming of that work is viewed as the same thing as providing a "performance", that needs to be covered by the ASCAP Web License. In this respect, there is no such thing as "fair use".

    If you allow a "download" of that work, that's considered distribution, and should involve HarryFox and his minions. When I was securing the Web License for my website, and posting works rendered by Paul Hindemith, Lenny Bernstein or even Zoltán Kodály, this issue came up time and time again.

    I could allow "downloads" of 3 or 4 second snippets as "examples" - fair use, but anything more than that, I had to obtain mechanical licenses for those files. If I stream only, no HarryFox.

    Stevemitchell

  9. #9
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    Re: Copyright issues with JABB mock-ups

    Stanford University Copyright and Fair Use Center has a great deal of information about this. Steve, it seems your purpose was perhaps to promote your music or album and perhaps not a fair use.

    According to Stanford,

    "fair use is any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and "transformative" purpose such as to comment upon, criticize or parody a copyrighted work. Such uses can be done without permission from the copyright owner... Most fair use analysis falls into two categories: commentary and criticism; or parody....The underlying rationale of this rule is that the public benefits from your review, which is enhanced by including some of the copyrighted material..."

    According to a US Copyright Office Circular,

    Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered “fair,” such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair:


    1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
    2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
    3. amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
    4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. (whether it deprives the copyright owner of income or undermines the market).
    The safest course is always to get permission from the copyright owner before using copyrighted material. The Copyright Office cannot give this permission. When it is impracticable to obtain permission, use of copyrighted material should be avoided unless the doctrine of “fair use” would clearly apply to the situation. The Copyright Office can neither determine if a certain use may be considered “fair” nor advise on possible copyright violations. If there is any doubt, it is advisable to consult an attorney."

  10. #10

    Re: Copyright issues with JABB mock-ups

    You're right Gary - Rather than rely on an interpretation of the law that could end up going against me, I sought out both ASCAP and HarryFox with a goal doing things on my website regarding intellectual property rights correctly, and making sure that the composers get their due.

    This way is the easiest for me, and $264 a year is not bad, since I'd probably be paying my defense attorney that per hour!

    Stevemitchell

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