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Topic: Auto / Midi Automation / (From-To) does not work!

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  1. #1

    Auto / Midi Automation / (From-To) does not work!

    I worked and tweaked a project for hours today useing the "From% and To%" under "Auto / cc7" basicaly setting the "To%" higher primarily for my Gold patches (They don't have the output other patches have).

    This worked great in getting all my volumes adjusted the way I wanted them.

    The problem is that after saveing (Sonar-4) and comeing back later all the "To%" that I had tweaked were all back at "63% the default".

    Anybody else experience this?

    T.S.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Big Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Auto / Midi Automation / (From-To) does not work!

    Hi Tod,

    Since I finished my Ultra TKT Script and I'm finally getting caught up since my big computer crash, I thought I'd try to take a whack at your latest problem. I see that you're still fiddlin' around with the CC7, CC11 stuff huh? .

    I've given this a quick try with the standalone K2 and I can get it to work OK, but it gave me a little trouble at first. However, I notice that you mentioned saving your K2 edits via Sonar. Can you give me a quick run thru of what you are doing, just one instrument. I'm not really too familiar with using the MIDI automation in conjunction with the plugin mode, but, I'll try to help out if I can.

    Bob
    Big Bob (aka Wonderful Bob)

  3. #3

    Re: Auto / Midi Automation / (From-To) does not work!

    Hi Big Bob,

    Concerning cc7 and cc11 I've learned a lot from, not only Kevin, Theo, and others, but a great deal from especialy you my friend. It's only you who has described the modulations in a way I can understand. At least in a way I can use them.

    Concerning the "Midi Automation". If you click on "Auto" in the Browser, then "Midi Automation" you will see all the CC-Controls available. In my case I'm only interested in cc7 and click on that. At the bottom you can select the cc7 for any of all instruments assigned to it. Then below all this you can see the "From% and To%". The only thing here I'm concerned with is the "To%" so that cc7 will alow cc7 at 127 to go above 0.0 db (Default is 63% and on my computer thats 0.0db)

    Useing this I tweaked my Sonar program for several hours and saved it (Having adjusted many of the instrument "To%" to a higher percentage).

    When I came back all "To%" were set back at 63%. Grrrr! A half a day lost.


    T.S.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Big Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Auto / Midi Automation / (From-To) does not work!

    Yes, but did you set the 'from' 'to' (either/or) when in standalone or in plugin mode? I don't know about Sonar (remember I have kind of a toy sequencer) but when I use K2 as a plugin, all the automation controllers are left unnumbered whereas when I run K2 standalone, the controllers are nicely numbered.

    If you set the CC7 for each instrument when in standalone mode (which would probably be the best way to do it), the trick may be very simple. Try this for me, launch K2 in standalone mode, then load an instrument and do the following.

    Select the automation tab and then select CC7. If it's already assigned (which it probably is), unassign it first (ie click 'Remove'). Next, drag CC7 to the volume slider for the instrument. Now adjust 'from' and 'to' to say 10% and 90%. Then, save the instrument. Close K2.

    Now relaunch K2 and load the instrument you just tweaked. Click the Automation tab (if its not still selected) and see what settings 'to' and 'from' are at. When I do this they stay where I put them at 10% and 90%. When I first tried this, I had some trouble getting my settings to stick, but, now they stick all the time.

    I think that the trick is this. Before you can get your changes to stick with the original patches, you have to first deassign cc7 then reassign it. Once you do that, you can apparently change it all you want and if you save the instrument your settings will return when you reload. I don't yet know what is special about the originals other than they are all set to 0 and 63%.

    Let me know if this trick does the job for you and in the meantime, as soon as I get somemore time, I'll try to look into this a little more.

    Bob

    PS Kevin is going to host my TKT script on his 'all things TKT webpage' and I need to get some practice with inserting hyperlinks. So here goes nothing
    http://kevintweedy.net/K2/content/
    Big Bob (aka Wonderful Bob)

  5. #5

    Re: Auto / Midi Automation / (From-To) does not work!

    Yay Big Bob, it seems to work. I've only tried it on one instrument so far as an experiment but it did work. I first removed the cc7, re-assigned it (setting it to 90%), and then saved the Sonar program and exited. When I reloaded Sonar it was still set to 90%.

    One thing to be aware of is that when you reassign cc7 it puts the "To%" at 100%. Things could be loud if you've got cc7 set at 127 in the program.

    Bless you Bob,

    T.S.

    PS> The link works fine. I downloaded your script but haven't had the chance to transfere it to my music computer yet.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Big Bob's Avatar
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    Post Re: Auto / Midi Automation / (From-To) does not work!

    Hey Tod,

    I guess I should have warned you to turn your speakers down or put in your earplugs huh? But then, I knew you would focus right away on changing 'to' and 'from' anyway. Glad it seems to work for you now. But, since I don't fully understand this thing yet you better be on the safe side and only do 3 or 4 instruments at a time and then check them back; so you don't lose another whole day's work before you discover that things aren't working. I wouldn't want you to be angry with me if 'she no fly' .

    God Bless,

    Bob
    Big Bob (aka Wonderful Bob)

  7. #7
    Senior Member Big Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Auto / Midi Automation / (From-To) does not work!

    Hi Tod,

    Finally had a little time to look into the cc7 deal and here's what I concluded, for what it's worth. When you first create an instrument, K2 assigns cc7 and cc10 automatically and cc7 is always set for 'to' = 63%. This assignment of cc7 to the instrument's main volume slider is somehow different than when we assign it! The difference is that their assignment is 'stubborn'. You can change the 'from' 'to' settings when you are using the instrument, but, you can't save and recall these changes. However, once you unassign cc7 and then reassign it, your changes will be saved with the instrument and are recallable.

    Another peculiar thing that I noticed is that, the global Option Menu setting for -6db or 0db thing doesn't seem to have any discernable effect on a created instrument. Maybe it's supposed to do something but isn't working?

    In any case, as I already alluded to, when you want to change the 'from' 'to' settings for cc7 (I didn't look at cc10 but it may behave the same way) for the first time since the instrument was created, you have to first de-assign the controller and then reassign it. After that you can change and save it as many times as you want with perfect recall.

    Maybe someday we'll get someone at NI to comment about such things as this, but don't hold your breath. My last two tech support forms have gone unanswered.

    Have a great day Tod,

    Bob
    Big Bob (aka Wonderful Bob)

  8. #8

    Re: Auto / Midi Automation / (From-To) does not work!

    Hi Bob,

    I think your right, maybe this From%/To% thing is like the "-1" thingy. At this point I don't have any problem with cc10 and can't think of any reason to change the From%/To% on that but knowing you, you'll come up with something to change my mind.

    Concerning the -6db or 0db thing I've noticed the same thing. Maybe it's for when you create a new instrument. I've got mine set to "0db" and have created a few new instruments but didn't realy pay that much attention.

    Come to think of it, I had three instruments in that program I was talking about that I created myself, samples and all, and also changed thier "To%". They didn't stick either but were also reset to 63%. This tells me that removeing and reassigning the cc7 needs to be done with each instrument (that you want to change) in each instance of K2 in every midi program.

    It would be interesting to see what happens if you remove/reassign the To% in an instrument and then save that instrument under a different name, and then reload it. Will have to try this.

    NI support?? When you realy like a product created by a certain company it's not easy to be negative but based on my own experience, and especialy the experience of others, I find it hard to stand behind NI. At this point as much as I love K2 I would never recommend it to someone else unless I thought they had the intuitiveness to figure it out themselves. He, He, of course I could recommend it and then send them to you.

    Thanks my friend for helping me sooo much,

    T.S.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Big Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Auto / Midi Automation / (From-To) does not work!

    Hi Tod,

    Come to think of it, I had three instruments in that program I was talking about that I created myself, samples and all, and also changed thier "To%". They didn't stick either but were also reset to 63%. This tells me that removeing and reassigning the cc7 needs to be done with each instrument (that you want to change) in each instance of K2 in every midi program.
    You got it! Any instrument that you or anyone else creates will have the stubborn cc7 problem at birth. But, once you de-assign and re-assign, it will lose its stubborness for all time. I believe you should be able to save copies with a different name and still have the stubborness gone.

    Have a great day ol' friend.

    Bob

    PS Thanks for your confidence in me, but, please don't 'sic em' on me .
    Big Bob (aka Wonderful Bob)

  10. #10
    Senior Member Big Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Auto / Midi Automation / (From-To) does not work!

    Hey Tod,

    Got some additional info on the stubborn cc7 thing. Another way to remove the stubborness from a newly created instrument (and perhaps a better way) is to go to the controller tab of Intrument Options and uncheck the box that says Use Standard Controllers for Vol and Pan. Then reasign cc7 and cc10 and adjust them as you wish. Now when you save the instrument the new settings will be recalled next time. Its just sort of a different way to de-assign the 'at birth' settings.

    I also discovered that you can restore the orignal 'stubborn' mode using the following ritual. First, desassign your assignments for cc7 and cc10, then go into Instrument Options and recheck the box (assuming you used the method above to de-assign in the first place. If not, first uncheck and then recheck the box. This should restore the 63%, stubborn mode so if you resave the instrument, it will be back to the 'at birth' mode.

    Just a little more K2 trivia for you to file away. Have a great day.

    Bob
    Big Bob (aka Wonderful Bob)

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