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Topic: Do we need more pianos?

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  1. #1

    Do we need more pianos?

    Well, do we?
    Worra
    SampleTekk

    Arf, arf, arf...

  2. #2

    Re: Do we need more pianos?

    Quote Originally Posted by Worra
    Well, do we?
    No more "perfect pianos". I'd like to request more characteristic pianos.

    /Tobias

  3. #3

    Re: Do we need more pianos?

    Quote Originally Posted by tob
    No more "perfect pianos". I'd like to request more characteristic pianos.

    /Tobias
    You mean something like this: http://www.sampletekk.com/products.php?cat=20

    But, I think there are more things to be done when it comes to well balanced sampled pianos that play well. That is, not onle sound good, but feels good when played. With bigger PC/Mac and cheaper RAM, you can work with more samples and processor power.
    Worra
    SampleTekk

    Arf, arf, arf...

  4. #4

    Re: Do we need more pianos?

    Quote Originally Posted by Worra
    You mean something like this: http://www.sampletekk.com/products.php?cat=20

    Exactly! I'd like to have a soft and beautiful sampled piano recorded in a big hall with a lot of real ambience and air. It's tough to do because of the noisefloor though..

    Quote Originally Posted by Worra
    But, I think there are more things to be done when it comes to well balanced sampled pianos that play well. That is, not onle sound good, but feels good when played. With bigger PC/Mac and cheaper RAM, you can work with more samples and processor power.
    Yeah, maybe collaborate with some genious coders to simulate the interference between the strings and the piano box. Or why not let the engine create unlimited velocity layers in realtime with some kind of morphing.

    /Tobias

  5. #5

    Re: Do we need more pianos?

    Quote Originally Posted by tob
    Exactly! I'd like to have a soft and beautiful sampled piano recorded in a big hall with a lot of real ambience and air. It's tough to do because of the noisefloor though..



    Yeah, maybe collaborate with some genious coders to simulate the interference between the strings and the piano box. Or why not let the engine create unlimited velocity layers in realtime with some kind of morphing.

    /Tobias
    Tobbe, är du vaken fortfarande....

    Haven't you made some recordings of a grand in a church?
    Worra
    SampleTekk

    Arf, arf, arf...

  6. #6

    Re: Do we need more pianos?

    yes.

    the recent Cloakley thread (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...light=kurzweil) was right about attention to detail. big libraries often sound great, but many (most?) are marred by imperfect samples/noise/programming. i don't want to argue whether this is reasonable considering the number of samples, it is simply a problem for me. the few left after this don't leave a great spread - at least for me. worra, i've yet to give Steiny D a good seeing to, but it seems to be among the few that i lump in the "scarbee" category - no nasty noises! so thank you. but the timbre isn't my "dream piano", so i'm happy for you to make more:-)

    *edit* i think the imperfection of all the "perfect" pianos leaves us wanting the idiosyncratic ones - the dodgy bits are less glaring

  7. #7

    Cool Re: Do we need more pianos?

    Quote Originally Posted by juliannicholl
    yes.

    the recent Cloakley thread (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...light=kurzweil) was right about attention to detail. big libraries often sound great, but many (most?) are marred by imperfect samples/noise/programming. i don't want to argue whether this is reasonable considering the number of samples, it is simply a problem for me. the few left after this don't leave a great spread - at least for me. worra, i've yet to give Steiny D a good seeing to, but it seems to be among the few that i lump in the "scarbee" category - no nasty noises! so thank you. but the timbre isn't my "dream piano", so i'm happy for you to make more:-)

    *edit* i think the imperfection of all the "perfect" pianos leaves us wanting the idiosyncratic ones - the dodgy bits are less glaring


    I agree; as i'm mainly playing classical music, during some soft pianissimo
    i ran often in little glitches or noises that even if not so strong they nearly drive me mad.
    maybe i'm just a maniac....

  8. #8

    Re: Do we need more pianos?

    Quote Originally Posted by mariobolo
    I agree; as i'm mainly playing classical music, during some soft pianissimo
    i ran often in little glitches or noises that even if not so strong they nearly drive me mad.
    maybe i'm just a maniac....
    I think the problem is they occur exactly the same way every time.

    Ernie

  9. #9

    Re: Do we need more pianos?

    Quote Originally Posted by ohernie
    I think the problem is they occur exactly the same way every time.

    Ernie
    I hope you are not playing one of our pianos, if so let me know and I'll try to help you.
    I piano library like our "Black Grand", contains over 7000 samples. All samples are edited by hand instead of relaying on automated tasks and batchjobs. It takes waaaaay longer time, but I feel that it gives us better control over the quality and also gives us a chanse of finding oddities.
    Never the less, with +7000 samples, chanses are that there might be one or two odd notes. It's always good to get to know about them and we always tries to fix them asap.
    Worra
    SampleTekk

    Arf, arf, arf...

  10. #10

    Re: Do we need more pianos?

    I apologize for getting annoying BUT ...

    I'd settle for one UNREALISTIC & IMPERFECT piano that could replace a module for live use.

    (Sorry, but if I don't keep bugging you developers I know I ain't never gonna get it )

    Needed - best as I can tell:

    Strong low note fundamentals

    (Go easy on the overtones. Most libraries have very nasal low notes. The harmonics carry real well through the PA and take the meat out of the low notes. I need just enough harmonics to say "piano". All those "double wound" chime-like harmonics in the midrange turn the bass notes into castrati. Aren't those an artifact anyway, introduced by the need to use the copper wound strings to get the mass?)

    Neutral character

    (With exceptions of upright libraries, go easy on the sound of the box. It should be a filter but not a resonant one. Understood that this is a dilemma - it shouldn't sound too close miced but ...)

    No ambience

    (Don't ask me how to do this with the above, but, as said before, it should sound like I'm playing in the room I'm in, not the one it was recorded in.)

    Compression

    (That's wave compression, not dynamic compression. With background noise those peaks jump out and the rest of the sound isn't heard. The peaks become the dominant part of the sound. From what I can tell the waves need to be compressed and then velocity scaling applied so I can still have some "dynamics".

    Mono compatibility

    (Or a mono version of the library - I can't always set up in stereo - all left samples below middle C and all right samples at C or above with panning would work)

    I wonder how many of you test your piano's with lots of background noise as would be in a live setting. Lately I've been checking piano's out at very low volumes. With the sound of my computer fans in the background it brings out the character of the attack vs the body so I get a feel for how "substantial" the piano will sound live. Most piano libraries lose their substance when played in a noisy environment.

    The way I look at it, the above creates a piano that is usable live. After that I would worry about realistic noises and resonance. Overall results have been so dismal I haven't even gotten to the point of investigating whether the frills would be heard in a live setting.

    I'm gigging every day these days. Come September, after Labor Day when I have the time, I expect to apply the above compression to the WGJr waveforms as an experiment to see how it sounds. (I can do it in bulk with Awave). You're welcome to beat me to it. Maybe it could become the "WGJr - live" version.

    Again - apologies for the annoyance.

    Ernie

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