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Topic: A new host: A revolution in the making

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  1. #1

    A new host: A revolution in the making

    As some of you know, Overture is updating with new features:
    http://geniesoft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=942

    Assuming these work as advertised (and I have no knowledge either way), this could be the start of a 'revolution': Professional level computer music for the masses.

    Right now, if you don't know anything about either music or computers, your ability to make high level music is severely limited...anyone looking at a Sonar screenshot (for random example) who knows nothing about music or computers would see nothing but a lot of confusing lines and boxes etc. Likewise for nearly any host.

    But Overture is a notation program...this is how the vast majority of individuals see music...as notes on a page. High notes are high...low notes are low. And they all look (relatively) familiar.

    And in its next iteration (due relatively soon AFAIK), Overture 4 will be a complete VSTi host.

    For the non-musician, this is a godsend...putting a note down in a familiar way/place and hearing it immediately back. Furthermore, it offers (among a lot of other useful things) the non-musician Non-Metered Playback...which means (for people like me...which of course is MOST people)...individuals will no longer have to count out 4 (or 8 or whatever) beats per measure...it plays back as written in a given tempo without barlines! Do non-musicians even KNOW from barlines? (Insert humor here)

    I understand this is a musician's forum, so a lot of people here obviously think like musicians (or computer musicians to be precise) and don't immediately see the need or benefits of such a program. And I understand that. The point is...most people aren't musicians! Furthermore...almost everyone would like to make music...Overture 4 (given everything I know) will make that much much easier for millions of people.

    Thus the start of a true revolution...not necessarily for people 'here' in this forum, but for the great 'unwashed masses' eager for their own sound, their own music.

    Their own song.

  2. #2
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    Re: A new host: A revolution in the making

    > this is how the vast majority of individuals see music...

    Individual who are muscians that is...

  3. #3
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: A new host: A revolution in the making

    I'm not sure I really follow that line of thinking. Have you ever worked in Overture? It's actually a good interface, but you very much need to know something about music--much more about music--to use Overture than you need to use a sequencer.

    Yes, you could just toss some notes on the screen. But Overture's highest and best use is based wholly in western musical conventions. You would need to know how to read and write music, in other words, in order to have the basic skillset to understand the UI, which is a representation of the printed page.

    With a sequencer, on the other hand, if you can peck out a line on the keyboard--even if you have no idea what it is you are actually expressing--you can capture that and edit it.

    With a notation program, you must actually possess the skill to abstract what you hear in your mind into standard notation--familiar looking, perhaps, but still a completely unfathomable language to someone who cannot read and write music.

  4. #4

    Re: A new host: A revolution in the making

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce A. Richardson
    I'm not sure I really follow that line of thinking. Have you ever worked in Overture? It's actually a good interface, but you very much need to know something about music--much more about music--to use Overture than you need to use a sequencer.

    Yes, you could just toss some notes on the screen. But Overture's highest and best use is based wholly in western musical conventions. You would need to know how to read and write music, in other words, in order to have the basic skillset to understand the UI, which is a representation of the printed page.
    I know people are musicians on this forum...and I know they THINK like musicians. And that's fine (as far as it goes). But I have to respectfully disagree with you:

    I've completed my first symphony with Overture SE (and GPO) and I neither know how to read nor write music...other than what I've written in SE. (Actually, I know what Middle C is and where it goes...but that's about it.)

    What do I need to know other than what I hear on playback? You put a note on a ledger (or whatever its called) (EDIT: 'staff'...) and follow that with another note...or group of notes...if the relationship between the two is powerful, moving, beautiful, then you've self-evidently created powerful, moving, beautiful music...what else do I need?

  5. #5
    Senior Member newmewzikboy's Avatar
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    Re: A new host: A revolution in the making

    I fail to see either this thread as having either a logical point, or an interesting sarcastic stand.

    Don't musicians read music?

    The benefits of OT4 are in the integration of MIDI editing + VSTi into a scoring package. For some of us it's easier to read and write music looking at all the note data being played at once, and there hasn't been anything better that score paper to do that. In a sequencer, MIDI tracks in a window along with audio tracks don't provide enough information to x-compare parts to easily assimulate durations, velocity, cresc etc. Even editing individual tracks with a midi editor is almost impossible to use to judge the relationship of information. I have tried sequencers with integrated scoring packages in the past, and they all came up short - Cubase score for instance.

    Unfortunately, scoring programs seem to be stuck in the mentality that we composers who like staves are only interested in printing. But, what we really want to do is compose, hear what we write, and then tweak and record the sounds so we can create quick demos. In other words, a tool for composing as a #1 priority.

    Finale, in their bad engineering wisdom, continues to stick more layers of featuritus on their product in hopes that you will buy into their yearly releases. However, each layer they do add is essentially nothing more than a hacked attempt at satisfying...and never delivers what we want - a composers tool with enough satisfying sequencer functionality to render a decent performance while we continue to focus on the creative process. As for perfect printout - it's a nice have...but not our #1 goal.

  6. #6
    Senior Member newmewzikboy's Avatar
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    Re: A new host: A revolution in the making

    Do you even ~~~~ing know what a Symphony is?

    Quote Originally Posted by imagegod
    ..
    I've completed my first symphony with Overture SE (and GPO) and I neither know how to read nor write music...other than what I've written in SE. (Actually, I know what Middle C is and where it goes...but that's about it.)

  7. #7

    Re: A new host: A revolution in the making

    Imagegod, I really would like to share your enthusiasm, but I really don't get the point: There is a program that basically uses a highly abstract way of writing music (= a standard notation system), and you say it is a godsend for people that do not know anything about music...? Hm... Why should this be easier for somebody who doesn't know anything about music than a sequencer?!

    With the same type of argumentation I could say that the note editor in Logic is 'better' than the piano roll view or the editor view or the arrangement page etc. pp. - However, I think it's just a different way of visualizing information. And I guess the 'best' way of working depends on your own taste and knowledge.

    So...

  8. #8

    Re: A new host: A revolution in the making

    Let's not stoop to personal attacks please as I'd not like to see anyone get banned. I highly respect Scott (imagegod) and I understand his plight which many people share. If he'd like to elaborate on why certain tasks are difficult to him, that's his call, but I'll leave it as...

    Music to him is a very visual thing. He has trouble with musical theory and conventions but cannot use a sequencer since it isn't visually gratifying. However, notation is. It can be very visual. So therefor he'd like to use a notation program to write. However, up to this point, that's been near impossible since music theory was required. Now that is no longer necessary since this update to Overture 4 will allow him to place as many freaking notes on one measure that his heart desires and it'll play back just fine.

    Hence his excitement.

    Don't denounce the plights of others as ignorance or laziness without trying to understand the reasons behind the issue. I understand and empathize.

  9. #9

    Re: A new host: A revolution in the making

    Joseph, sorry if my post did sound remotely like a personal attack (?). It wasn't meant as an attack, but I really didn't get the point. To me, imagegod's argumentation seemed to be a bit strange, but it sounds more logical with the background information you gave us. It probably depends on where you are coming from and what your interests are...

  10. #10

    Re: A new host: A revolution in the making

    Quote Originally Posted by newmewzikboy
    Do you even ~~~~ing know what a Symphony is?
    Technically...probably not. A symphony per se, has a very specific, very technical definition. Whether or not my 'symphony' fulfills this definition is unknown...but that's not the point.

    The point is, I can (and non-musicians can) create 'symphonic' music with little or no musical skill. Clearly, a musical 'ear' as well as a musical vision is needed...but that comes from God.

    And thanks Joseph!

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