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Topic: VAR1 and VAR2

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  1. #1

    VAR1 and VAR2

    Still using the un-upgraded GPO on my Mac and would like to know what PERCENTAGES are working successfully with VAR1 (intonation) and VAR2 (Timbre)? Like, how much is too little/too much?

    Any guidance on this subject gratefully appreciated. I haven't heard of anyone discussing this subject recently.

    John
    Jack Cannon--Toshiba laptop, 2.8 GHz CPU, 1.5 GB RAM, GPO4-JABB3-Auth. STEINWAY-Gofriller CELLO-Stradivari VIOLIN-COMB2-WORLD, FINALE 2009/11, RME Digiface, Cardbus, V-Stack---Mac Pro 2.66 GHz CPU, 8 GB RAM, DP 8, MOTU Traveler, MOTU Micro Express.--MacBook Pro 2.2 Ghz CPU, 8 GB RAM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Styxx's Avatar
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    Re: VAR1 and VAR2

    So far all I've have used the variation controls for were snare drum and bass drum. For snare, I can get some pretty neat sounding "close to the rim" effects. As for other instruments I have to say I haven't really investigated yet.
    Styxx

  3. #3

    Re: VAR1 and VAR2

    Quote Originally Posted by Styxx
    So far all I've have used the variation controls for were snare drum and bass drum. For snare, I can get some pretty neat sounding "close to the rim" effects. As for other instruments I have to say I haven't really investigated yet.
    Thanks Styxx. Since you are a percussionist, when you say you got some pretty neat sounding "close to the rim" effects, they must have been real good-sounding. What percentages did you use for VAR1 or VAR2?

    I hope some others respond with their experiences with SOLO INSTRUMENTS.

    John
    Jack Cannon--Toshiba laptop, 2.8 GHz CPU, 1.5 GB RAM, GPO4-JABB3-Auth. STEINWAY-Gofriller CELLO-Stradivari VIOLIN-COMB2-WORLD, FINALE 2009/11, RME Digiface, Cardbus, V-Stack---Mac Pro 2.66 GHz CPU, 8 GB RAM, DP 8, MOTU Traveler, MOTU Micro Express.--MacBook Pro 2.2 Ghz CPU, 8 GB RAM.

  4. #4

    Re: VAR1 and VAR2

    John,

    VAR1 and VAR2 are not intended (in most situations) to have a single percentage, "set and forget" value for the entire length of a track. They are intended to be used in a task-specific way to solve very real problems that arise due to the "snap shot" nature of samples and the tuning conventions necessary in such libraries. Common applications of VAR include passages containing rapidly repeated identical notes, groups of notes, and runs. Whenever the ear can quickly identify the presence of re-occurring identical samples VAR data can be drawn into the tracks at the problem locations to help ameliorate the mechanical-sounding results. How much VAR data does it take to solve a problem? It depends on many factors and can change with context. The amount is also interactive with the presence of other controllers like mod wheel, velocity, and sustain pedal making a simple answer to the question almost impossible in a general sense. The only way to determine how much is needed is to use your ears. I know that's not the quantified answer you wanted but it is nevertheless the definitive answer, as with many things in music/audio. It's always nice to have a reference and for that I would recommend direct A/B comparisons with recordings of similar material using real acoustic instruments. Anyway, for a more "hands on" application of VAR (among other things) see my tutorial here: http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ad.php?t=33375

    Tom

  5. #5

    Re: VAR1 and VAR2

    Tom,

    Related to this, does the Velocity Variation control in the Porperty Inspector in Cubase do the same thing as CC23 when using GPO?

    Do certain level of certains trigger different layers? Or is the sound manipulated otherwise?

    If I am not using the keyboard to input notes at all on a piece, should I still use the modwheel for volume? What are the advantages? (Strings, brass, woodwinds)

    Is there ever a situation when it is best to use the standard controllers for and not the modwheel (the option in the Kontakt player)?

    Thank you for your answers.

  6. #6

    Re: VAR1 and VAR2

    Sometimes (using ensemble building) I set the Var 1(random intonation) in order of orchestral rows and players ability.
    You know that the most able players are in front of the orchestra, the younger and less-experienced ones are behind.
    So (for ex.) if you are going to use 6 strings you can suppose that the 1st player is the best one, the 2nd a little less, the 3rd less than 2nd and so on.
    So I use the set the Var1 knob on 0% for the 1st, 4% the 2nd, 6% for the 3rd, 8%for 4th, 10% the 5th, 12/14% the 6th, never going over 18/20%.
    Even if it's a really minimun perception of changes for your ears, this helps to make the global sound (speaking about the whole orchestra) more plenty and real.
    I never use the Var 2,but it's a personal choice, because I prefer to make my own dynamics.
    Hope this help
    Francesco
    nothing is forever

  7. #7

    Re: VAR1 and VAR2

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hopkins
    John,

    VAR1 and VAR2 are not intended (in most situations) to have a single percentage, "set and forget" value for the entire length of a track. They are intended to be used in a task-specific way to solve very real problems that arise due to the "snap shot" nature of samples and the tuning conventions necessary in such libraries. Common applications of VAR include passages containing rapidly repeated identical notes, groups of notes, and runs. Whenever the ear can quickly identify the presence of re-occurring identical samples VAR data can be drawn into the tracks at the problem locations to help ameliorate the mechanical-sounding results. How much VAR data does it take to solve a problem? It depends on many factors and can change with context. The amount is also interactive with the presence of other controllers like mod wheel, velocity, and sustain pedal making a simple answer to the question almost impossible in a general sense. The only way to determine how much is needed is to use your ears. I know that's not the quantified answer you wanted but it is nevertheless the definitive answer, as with many things in music/audio. It's always nice to have a reference and for that I would recommend direct A/B comparisons with recordings of similar material using real acoustic instruments. Anyway, for a more "hands on" application of VAR (among other things) see my tutorial here: http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ad.php?t=33375

    Tom
    Thanks Tom.

    John
    Jack Cannon--Toshiba laptop, 2.8 GHz CPU, 1.5 GB RAM, GPO4-JABB3-Auth. STEINWAY-Gofriller CELLO-Stradivari VIOLIN-COMB2-WORLD, FINALE 2009/11, RME Digiface, Cardbus, V-Stack---Mac Pro 2.66 GHz CPU, 8 GB RAM, DP 8, MOTU Traveler, MOTU Micro Express.--MacBook Pro 2.2 Ghz CPU, 8 GB RAM.

  8. #8

    Re: VAR1 and VAR2

    Quote Originally Posted by Francesco
    Sometimes (using ensemble building) I set the Var 1(random intonation) in order of orchestral rows and players ability.
    You know that the most able players are in front of the orchestra, the younger and less-experienced ones are behind.
    So (for ex.) if you are going to use 6 strings you can suppose that the 1st player is the best one, the 2nd a little less, the 3rd less than 2nd and so on.
    So I use the set the Var1 knob on 0% for the 1st, 4% the 2nd, 6% for the 3rd, 8%for 4th, 10% the 5th, 12/14% the 6th, never going over 18/20%.
    Even if it's a really minimun perception of changes for your ears, this helps to make the global sound (speaking about the whole orchestra) more plenty and real.
    I never use the Var 2,but it's a personal choice, because I prefer to make my own dynamics.
    Hope this help
    Francesco
    Thank you Francesco. Your example is exactly what I was looking for. With Tom's explanation of the VARs and your example, I am very much more knowledgable about VAR1 and VAR2 than I was before my post.

    John
    Jack Cannon--Toshiba laptop, 2.8 GHz CPU, 1.5 GB RAM, GPO4-JABB3-Auth. STEINWAY-Gofriller CELLO-Stradivari VIOLIN-COMB2-WORLD, FINALE 2009/11, RME Digiface, Cardbus, V-Stack---Mac Pro 2.66 GHz CPU, 8 GB RAM, DP 8, MOTU Traveler, MOTU Micro Express.--MacBook Pro 2.2 Ghz CPU, 8 GB RAM.

  9. #9

    Re: VAR1 and VAR2

    Quote Originally Posted by Francesco
    Sometimes (using ensemble building) I set the Var 1(random intonation) in order of orchestral rows and players ability.
    You know that the most able players are in front of the orchestra, the younger and less-experienced ones are behind.
    I admit I chuckled at this one! This particular use of VAR hadn't occurred to me, but I like it. And it’s definitely in the service of realism. In its more extreme examples it brings back memories of the unfortunate 12th clarinet player in the second row of concert band in high school, lo those many years ago. I used to get reprimanded for being unable to control my laughter when certain assigned etudes were being roundly butchered by the lesser players in the group. They couldn't help it and neither could I. I got very skilled at hiding my convulsions behind my music stand so at least my callous behavior wasn’t so visible. The sad part is: If you were to put me back in that band today I’d still be laughing. I never outgrew it. Oh well.

    Tom


    Tom

  10. #10

    Re: VAR1 and VAR2

    Tom,

    Related to this, does the Velocity Variation control in the Porperty Inspector in Cubase do the same thing as CC23 when using GPO?

    Do certain level of certains trigger different layers? Or is the sound manipulated otherwise?

    If I am not using the keyboard to input notes at all on a piece, should I still use the modwheel for volume? What are the advantages? (Strings, brass, woodwinds)

    Is there ever a situation when it is best to use the standard controllers for and not the modwheel (the option in the Kontakt player)?

    Thank you for your answers.

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