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Topic: help about knocks in tuttis

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  1. #1

    help about knocks in tuttis

    can anybody help with this,
    Im doing a bit orchestral composition, ok , now there are different moments in which many instruments play at the same time in crescendos whatever, partial and full tuttis, and I can hear little cracks and like knocks from time to time, like a soft knock on the door, but what I dont understand is that there is no clipping at all, the levels dont clip and the CPU usage doesnt go over 50% !!! ( i have a pentium 4 3.2 ghz with 2 gigabytes of RAM) , so u know, if I had clipping or CPU saturation I would understand... but how can this happen when I have none of those?
    thanks for any help
    Jav

  2. #2

    Re: help about knocks in tuttis

    For troublshooting weird situations like this, I would recommend that you go to the worst place and eliminate three tracks and see if it is still there. If the problem still exists, reactivate those tracks, and mute the next three. Do this all the way down the list. You may find that just one track is causing it, then you can inspect that track's data. If you go all the way through the list and find nothing, then it is probably a CPU issue.

    That's what I would do

    Dan

  3. #3

    Re: help about knocks in tuttis

    Try checking the volume levels in the Kontakt player. I have found that jacking especially the winds up much higher than the default levels will cause pops.

    Good luck in tracking this down,

    Karl

  4. #4

    Re: help about knocks in tuttis

    Jav,
    The CPU meter is not always a reliable means of determining if you're experiencing transient CPU peaks. The meters periodically sample CPU usage and may miss transients. So this may actually be a latency problem that can be solved by increasing your latency (more milliseconds or bigger buffer). Try that first.

    I've also experienced transient problems that seemed like latency problems but were actually irregularities in the CC#1 events. Occasionally in the middle of an otherwise smooth CC#1 curve, I have accidentally introduced a very low value, say dropping from 60 to 5 then immediately back to 60. This can introduce some artifacts in the sound also.
    Bill

  5. #5

    Re: help about knocks in tuttis

    thank u very much to all of u for all your great comments, this is very helpful
    just one thing, about the latency, I mean, the latency I thought was relevant just for recording, but for doing playback through a software virtual instrument I thought the latency wouldnt matter, does it? in what way?

    thanks lots again


    Quote Originally Posted by billp
    Jav,
    The CPU meter is not always a reliable means of determining if you're experiencing transient CPU peaks. The meters periodically sample CPU usage and may miss transients. So this may actually be a latency problem that can be solved by increasing your latency (more milliseconds or bigger buffer). Try that first.

    I've also experienced transient problems that seemed like latency problems but were actually irregularities in the CC#1 events. Occasionally in the middle of an otherwise smooth CC#1 curve, I have accidentally introduced a very low value, say dropping from 60 to 5 then immediately back to 60. This can introduce some artifacts in the sound also.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Styxx's Avatar
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    Re: help about knocks in tuttis

    Fire the percussionist!

    Really though, I experienced the same problem and Dan's advice is pretty much how I found the culprit. Several tracks with repeated notes maxed out velocity were causing the problem. Mostly centered around timpani, bass, and bass drum.
    Styxx

  7. #7

    Re: help about knocks in tuttis

    Jav,
    Latency matters whenever your soundcard is processing audio: playback and recording. The more samples/audio streams that are processed per unit time, the more CPU is utilized, both by the soundcard drivers and by the synths in accessing and presenting the samples for reproduction by the soundcard.

    Once you have rendered the synth to an audio track, CPU utilization will drop some. A plain audio track is like one big sample, so it requires much fewer resources to reproduce than a stream of individual samples (for each note) that must be retrieved (even from memory) and passed by the synth to the soundcard. That's why it's often recommended to "freeze" your synth tracks, which means they're converted to lower-resource-consuming audio tracks and the corresponding synth track(s) are disabled.

    CPU is also consumed by the effects, such as reverb.
    Bill

  8. #8

    Question Re: help about knocks in tuttis

    I have got the same problem!!
    I am working on a composition with a large orchestra and choir.
    So when I try to make sound all the orchestra loaded in kontakt player I hear some knocks that are really troublesome.
    I still have to try whether is a question regarding the number of notes played simultaneously, but when I have tryed to remove the steinway piano
    all works perfectly!!!
    What I have to do.
    I want to keep the piano. In addition the problem grows when I put the pedal with the cc64 data.
    Do you have some suggestions?
    I would be very grateful to you.
    Best,
    Roberto

  9. #9

    Re: help about knocks in tuttis

    Roberto,

    Sounds like Jav's problem.

    Using the pedal compounds the problem because it results in more notes being sounded at one time (sustain = increased polyphony), which puts additional load on the CPU.

    What sequencer are you using?

    If you're using a sequencer like SONAR, Logic, Cubase, etc, you can render the Steinway to an audio track. In SONAR, the function is called "freezing" a track. I'm sure the other sequencers have a similar function.

    Once the piano is rendered to audio, the GPO player will not need to reproduce the piano track. The audio track can be played instead, using much less CPU.

    Normally, the sequencer's "freeze" function will create the audio track and then disable the synth piano track.

    If your sequencer doesn't have a freeze function, you should still be able to bounce the piano to an audio track and then disable the GPO piano track.
    Bill

  10. #10

    Thumbs up Re: help about knocks in tuttis

    Quote Originally Posted by billp
    Roberto,

    Sounds like Jav's problem.

    Using the pedal compounds the problem because it results in more notes being sounded at one time (sustain = increased polyphony), which puts additional load on the CPU.

    What sequencer are you using?

    If you're using a sequencer like SONAR, Logic, Cubase, etc, you can render the Steinway to an audio track. In SONAR, the function is called "freezing" a track. I'm sure the other sequencers have a similar function.

    Once the piano is rendered to audio, the GPO player will not need to reproduce the piano track. The audio track can be played instead, using much less CPU.

    Normally, the sequencer's "freeze" function will create the audio track and then disable the synth piano track.

    If your sequencer doesn't have a freeze function, you should still be able to bounce the piano to an audio track and then disable the GPO piano track.
    Bill, thank you very much.
    This is a great idea!!
    I am not using any sequencer. Usually I play the instruments loaded in kontakt directly from Finale.
    But I will try to make this track in Cubase if I will find the way to freeze as well as in SONAR.
    However, I think that after this suggestion the problem will be deleted.
    Than you very much again Bill,
    great to be a part of this forum.
    best,
    Roberto

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