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Topic: Garritan strings "off" in mix down???? Help!!

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  1. #1

    Question Garritan strings "off" in mix down???? Help!!

    Greetings,
    I have run into a peculiar problem that i havent faced before. I am working on my biggest project yet with Garritan Orchestral Strings. So far everything is in midi. In playback, its perfect. Everything sounds great. When i drop the string tracks to audio like usual, the play back is incorrect!!!

    What was perfectly on time, is no longer perfect!!! It seems to only be in a section with heavy string moment. I am running Gigastudio (full updated, etc..) and SONAR 2.2. It usually works fine! What could be the cause of this????

    I am recording the tracks down right from the beginning of the song, so its not an alignment issue. And it only seems to get off in one or two sections. Could it somehow be my midi work??? The midi work is dead-on in playback? Why would the same data as audio be off????

  2. #2

    Re: Garritan strings "off" in mix down???? Help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by AG Rocks
    The midi work is dead-on in playback? Why would the same data as audio be off????
    It sounds like Sonar is to blame...

    Playback should be no different than recording.

    Make sure that your midi tracks are all turned off before you playback the recorded tracks, just to make sure you are hearing only the recorded audio tracks.

    dpDan

  3. #3

    Re: Garritan strings "off" in mix down???? Help!!

    I have just been doing test mixes of all the tracks at once to one file just to hear them as audio so i could work on a different section of the song. (15 Garritan files with long bows mixed in get me to 95% system capacity so im crashing now anyways)

    Im going to try lowering my load and recording one instrument file at a time and seeing how that comes out. Its so strange. Its really only in the sections where the whole orchestra is playing very syncopated, unison parts. I dont understand why everything else would be perfectly in time.

    I double checked my midi work as well, its locked to the metronome, guitars, drums, bass, etc... when played from midi. Would the SONAR Latency slider have an affect on this????

  4. #4

    Re: Garritan strings "off" in mix down???? Help!!

    Are you recording in Sonar itself, or from Gigastudio?

  5. #5

    Re: Garritan strings "off" in mix down???? Help!!

    I set GigaStudio to record a WAVE file. It gets the start/stop command from SONAR. I then import the wave file back in. I start everything from 0:00:00 so there is no synch problems.


    Is there a way to actually capture the audio in SONAR instead???? SONAR has the been the best program. I actually prefer working on it than most other platforms. If only Gigastudio could run with the stability of SONAR...(i can dream right??)

    I thought i couldn't do that since i am running GigaStudio and SONAR on the same machine. I have also set SONAR's priority in GS to 8. Should i adjust that???

    Oh...I DO have another laptop that will run SONAR great, but GS never initializes on it. Would MidiOverLan be a good idea? Put SONAR are the second machine. Then send audio output from the GS machine to the SONAR machine as an actual recording? Would that work better????

  6. #6

    Re: Garritan strings "off" in mix down???? Help!!

    Quote Originally Posted by AG Rocks
    I set GigaStudio to record a WAVE file. It gets the start/stop command from SONAR. I then import the wave file back in. I start everything from 0:00:00 so there is no synch problems.


    Is there a way to actually capture the audio in SONAR instead???? SONAR has the been the best program. I actually prefer working on it than most other platforms. If only Gigastudio could run with the stability of SONAR...(i can dream right??)

    I thought i couldn't do that since i am running GigaStudio and SONAR on the same machine. I have also set SONAR's priority in GS to 8. Should i adjust that???

    Oh...I DO have another laptop that will run SONAR great, but GS never initializes on it. Would MidiOverLan be a good idea? Put SONAR are the second machine. Then send audio output from the GS machine to the SONAR machine as an actual recording? Would that work better????
    You can choose to record in Sonar even with Gigastudio running on the same machine. I did this a few times at a studio where giga sounds and a number of hardware modules had to be recorded together, and recording them seperately was just an unneccessary hassle. Just set your Sonar recorder to the option that records the "master mix" (forget the term for it right now..), meaning that it will simply record any and all sound going through you card.
    After all, remember that all the sound is running out the same set of sound coard outputs - thus Sonar should be able to capture them all.

    You could use your laptop, but that sounds like unnecessary extra work. If as you say the playback is fine on your system, then Sonar should be able to record it as is on the same system.

    I have no idea what might be causing your actual problem though... sounds pretty odd!

  7. #7

    Re: Garritan strings "off" in mix down???? Help!!

    Ok, recording direct from Giga outputs into SONAR, the audio is horrendous! Its shrill and metallic sounding. If i reroute it through external hardware then the signal becomes too weak, and any boosting produces feedback strangely.

    I think my system just decided to go crazy when i started running about 90%. I've cut back, and have been working between 40% - 65% and it seems a lot better. I am having Giga capture the wave and then just opening it up on SONAR and it seems correct now. And i am no longer getting odd noise in the recording either. At 90+ i was occasionally getting noise and clicks in the Giga recordings. So, all seems good. After this project i will definitely move up to the "self-contained" libraries. Symphonic Choirs and maybe Symphonic Strings. I hear Garritan is working on OS-2. That would be ideal if i could have those outside of a gigastudio environment!

  8. #8
    Senior Member
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    Feb 2005
    Location
    Salisbury, UK
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    Re: Garritan strings "off" in mix down???? Help!!

    MIDI timings can be affected by jitter and latency (latency being the obvious culprit if you are triggering your tracks from a keyboard). More likely it is the unusual size of your project which is the cause. Jitter is the unpredictable delay or timing variation that can occur in a MIDI channel or between MIDI Channels. Latency being a simple log jam caused by the sheer size of of the queue, given that MIDI can only process one note at a time and relies on the ear not noticing. So what is the solution? The Manufacturers solve this with fixes which rely on buffering. But these requires that your DAW and your MIDI interface come from the same stable. How do I know all this, being a technical simpleton? I don't. I am merely summarising page 246 of the master's book.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Salisbury, UK
    Posts
    312

    Re: Garritan strings "off" in mix down???? Help!!

    Ii should have added in the above that the problem can also arise or be aggravated because some DAWs give MIDI events lower priority (typically in lieu of audio)

  10. #10

    Re: Garritan strings "off" in mix down???? Help!!

    Now ive run into a second issue! On one new song i just layed tracks on, once complete, during playback some notes double in volume midway through. Kind of a sudden jump randomly. I am only peaking at 120 - 130 voices in a couple spots, and those arent the locations of the problem!

    My load is obviously the problem in both cases I feel.
    I have managed to get through this regardless. When recording individual tracks though, i am pretty error free thank goodness.

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