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Topic: Trombone Question

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  1. #1

    Trombone Question

    OK, I am 100% sure this has been addressed here somewhere in the forum, but for the life of me, I can never find threads with the answers!
    So if this has been answered - just point me to the thread please.

    Maybe Tom Hopkins can help me understand.

    Why do the trombones only have a whole tone pitch bend available to them? Couldn't a perfect 4th be programmed into them? Or does that degrade the sample too much? I had a solo trombone part in my ballet which made constant use of the slide of a 4th. I tried to do a software work-around, but have had no luck, so I just used the original trombone solo (Roland MT-200's, trombone didn't sound that bad at all in the first place - but wanted it to be all GPO) and incorporated it into the piece. (I recently re-orchestrated a ballet I wrote 10 years ago which is being re-performed this year and I reworked it with GPO)

    I just was curious about this because the slide is a very peculiar characteristic of the trombone and wanted to know why this wasn't incorporated. Is it because of NI? or was it just a decision for the overall integrity of the sample's sound?

    Thanks in advance - especially for your patience!

    Jerry
    MacBook Pro Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5ghz 4GB Ram OSX 10.5.8
    Korg TritonLe & MAudio Oxygen 8
    T3, Logic 9, DP7, K2, GPO4, Strad, Gofriller, C&MB, Finale 2010

    My Website!
    New Film Scores!
    Also, Ever think about having your very own personal documentary? See my new Website!
    http://www.mylegacyfilm.com


  2. #2

    Re: Trombone Question

    Jerry,

    I don't recall anyone asking that before. The answer is that I felt that wider intervals than a major 2nd were unsuccessful in practice. I just listened again and my opinion hasn't changed. But, . . . anyone wishing to modify that decision can easily do it in the full version of Kontakt. It's just a slider adjustment in the "Source" module, under "Pitchbend." This sort of custom modification of the library is one of the best reasons to own the full version of Kontakt. If you don't have the full version of Kontakt and you end up in a situation like that again, you can always contact me and I'll try to provide a solution.

    Tom

  3. #3

    Re: Trombone Question

    Jerry,

    You could try using portamento. The GPO update docs tell you the controls for this.

    If you are Finale user, I have previously posted on the Tips section a sample F2k5 doc which shoes how to use expressions to control portamento.

  4. #4

    Re: Trombone Question

    Remember that you actually have a slide of a major third available to you: whole step up + whole step down. Works as long as you start at full positive bend, and end on full negative (or vice-versa). Doesn't quite give you your 4th, but you're almost there.

    Changing the bend range in Kontakt to a minor 3rd would not degrade the sound much at the extremes of the bend, but would still give you a potential tritone gliss, the maximum available on a trombone.
    - Jamie Kowalski

    All Hands Music - Kowalski on the web
    The Ear Is Always Correct - Writings on composition

  5. #5

    Re: Trombone Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hopkins
    Jerry,

    I don't recall anyone asking that before. The answer is that I felt that wider intervals than a major 2nd were unsuccessful in practice. I just listened again and my opinion hasn't changed. But, . . . anyone wishing to modify that decision can easily do it in the full version of Kontakt. It's just a slider adjustment in the "Source" module, under "Pitchbend." This sort of custom modification of the library is one of the best reasons to own the full version of Kontakt. If you don't have the full version of Kontakt and you end up in a situation like that again, you can always contact me and I'll try to provide a solution.

    Tom
    Thanks Tom, I appreciate your VERY timely response! I hope you get the praise and gratitude you deserve for your work I know I am totally grateful!

    Richard,
    Thanks for the tip about the portamento - I hadn't thought of that as an alternative (doh!) I'll look at your Finale help.



    Quote Originally Posted by Skysaw
    Remember that you actually have a slide of a major third available to you: whole step up + whole step down. Works as long as you start at full positive bend, and end on full negative (or vice-versa). Doesn't quite give you your 4th, but you're almost there.

    Changing the bend range in Kontakt to a minor 3rd would not degrade the sound much at the extremes of the bend, but would still give you a potential tritone gliss, the maximum available on a trombone.
    Skysaw,
    Thanks for the tip about that. I don't have the full version of Kontakt but I had tried using the full bend, but found that the only thing that is unattractive about doing it that way is that the pitchbend in the Kontakt Player actually goes up (and down) more (just barely) than a major second - like a major second and a half of a quarter tone. and the timbre is much brighter with the pitch bend up (and vice versa) than the standard tone played sans pitch data. It is still the best work-around when playing it live. I am sure there are some sampler work-arounds as well.

    Thanks to ALL for your responses! I have already solved my problem by using the other sample - (had to in a time pinch) - but I just thought I would throw that question out there to see if I could have done things differently. This will help me in the future.

    Thanks again!!


    Jerry Wickham
    MacBook Pro Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5ghz 4GB Ram OSX 10.5.8
    Korg TritonLe & MAudio Oxygen 8
    T3, Logic 9, DP7, K2, GPO4, Strad, Gofriller, C&MB, Finale 2010

    My Website!
    New Film Scores!
    Also, Ever think about having your very own personal documentary? See my new Website!
    http://www.mylegacyfilm.com


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