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Topic: Expressive small violin section

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  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    Jan 2002
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    Dorset, UK
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    Expressive small violin section

    I note some comments about expressive violins in some threads I was catching up on. I have an expressive small violin patch which I developed a couple of years ago. (Athough I sampled sacks full of articulations, I only ever completed sustains and legato, which was all I needed). I still resort to it because there is still nothing out that is quite as expressive.

    The aim was to produce a solo and a small violin section which allowed basic note-on control of dynamics and vibrato, whilst sounding intimate, grainy and detailed.

    A 2v section obviously has optimum vibrato and “grain” detail, but when small string sections are cross-faded for note-on velocity modulation, the section doubles half way between the crossfades, which makes it sound thicker, with loss of detail. (Of course solo violin samples sound like 2 violins when crossfaded).

    My 2V patch uses physical re-modelled samples and other methods to produce a smoothly continuous MW controlled cross-fade from pp to ff, with typical timbre change and increasing vibrato, whilst only 2 violins are playing at any time. The attack (“natural”, not amplitude-enveloped) becomes faster with increasing velocity, but MW can be used to “bow” the attack naturally.

    The idea is to avoid using amplitude (CC7, CC11, ADSR envelope) control altogether in expression and attack modulation, and using the cross-faded dynamics to shape each bow. The result sounds much more natural, with no suction. The legato feature is also unique.

    Here’s an old demo (I think I posted this a couple of yrs ago), a bit from the ubiquitous JSB air using 2,2,2,1. The violas are in fact derived from the violin samples. The Cello is Dan Dean’s (with home-made release-triggered samples, to produce humanised variable short arcos)


    http://freespace.virgin.net/martin.beckers/JSBAir.MP3



    In fact I tend to double the 1st violin with my solo violin to produce 3,2,2,1. This patch also transforms libs like GOS when layered in, bringing it alive.

    I don't know if there is any interest in a patch like this at a time like now. Although I spent a lot of thought and time on it I don't aim to go into retail. But should I make a few copies available for a suitable sum?

  2. #2

    Re: Expressive small violin section

    I don't know if there is any interest in a patch like this at a time like now
    yes, there is. I'm just curious to listen to an example of the patch with faster attack activated. Sounds good.

    Luca

  3. #3

    Re: Expressive small violin section

    I'll take mine as an exs instrument please. :-)
    Very nice cue too.


    cb

  4. #4

    Re: Expressive small violin section

    Hello,

    These violins sound real. But it could simply be a good demo, showing strengths, hiding weaknesses. Nevertheless I have never heard a chamber string section as convincing as this. Actually emotive.

    But I don’t get this. Physical "re-modelling" you say? Does it use LFO to modulate vibrato? So what format does this violin section come in? You say you have a solo violin which modulates velocity and vibrato? Is that included. What about the violas. I also really dig the cello part. What’s “a suitable price”. More info required.

    You say you've had this for two yrs. Why bring this up only now?

  5. #5

    Re: Expressive small violin section

    Possibly for something like this a shareware model would work? Give it away free with a license, and ask that those who find that they use it then send you payment. Just an idea -- for myself, I'd be interested but very unlikely to buy it on the basis of a demo, and without a sense, gained over time, that others have used it and found it valuable.

  6. #6

    Re: Expressive small violin section

    I'm interested.

    Rick

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
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    Re: Expressive small violin section

    Thanks for your interest.

    It's an instrument for all versions of GS and it's pretty simple (the complicated bit is inherent in the samples). There are 4 crossfaded samples per pitch, successive samples are related to each other through sample based modelling. There is no LFO - the vibrato is all natural. (This is also true for the solo violin although this modulates vibrato in a different way to the 2v section).

    A lot of design and time went into it. As far as I am concerned it was a successful experiment and the results fulfilled an unmet need at the time. It was used for a series of chamber size ensemble recordings to replace recordings which were not realistic enough. The original recording was in 24bit; after processing in 32bit float format it was dithered for GS 2.
    Personally I love these violins and I value them too much to turn it into shareware material. I'm not looking to recoup any costs but would like any price set to reflect some worth - say a mid double figure sum.

    I did a lot work on solo violins 3+yrs back using sample based physical modelling, following which I was then in discussions with a well known developer to work on a new release. This was before "physical modelling" was a buzz word in the sampling world, when the quest was for more realistic undoctored samples. When I mentioned to him that the idea of physical modelling in samples might have a negative market value I never heard from him again.

    I noted from recent threads that "physical modelling" is perhaps not such a dirty word in the sample world after all. My patch shows how a degree of physical modelling can be combined with sampling to get round some of the difficulties of producing a truly expressive small violin section from samples.

    If there was enough interest I would spend the time to do more demos and consider completing some other articulations, oh and look at the solo violin.

  8. #8

    Re: Expressive small violin section

    It sounds really good... and I'm interested too!
    Patrice Brousseau

  9. #9

    Re: Expressive small violin section

    Quote Originally Posted by Beckers

    I did a lot work on solo violins 3+yrs back using sample based physical modelling, following which I was then in discussions with a well known developer to work on a new release. This was before "physical modelling" was a buzz word in the sampling world, when the quest was for more realistic undoctored samples. When I mentioned to him that the idea of physical modelling in samples might have a negative market value I never heard from him again.
    Interesting. Which developer? Garritan? I understand for a couple of years he's been planning the release of solo strings with a from of dynamic control. But it sounds like his form of control is real-time sample manipulation rather than recorded in the samples.

    Incidentally, I should mention the level of your demo is quite low and it sounds very bright. So violins do sound bright close up but little EQ worked for me. I expect also your violins were recorded close up, much closer than your placement in the demo. Perhaps you need to compensate for that. I would also have brought up the cello a bit more, but perhaps you kept it down deliberately.

  10. #10

    Re: Expressive small violin section

    Sounds good!

    I'm not going to go into a detailed analysis of the sound, but I'd be interested in buying it for sure. The level of expression is very nice.

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