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Topic: feature request: legato

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  1. #1

    feature request: legato

    Hi everybody!

    I have an idea for future updates that would, imho, improve playability a lot: At present, the legato function works as follows: when the sustain pedal is pressed, the attack of the samples is not played, so that subsequent notes are played legate. BUT: this applies also to the first note of a phrase. I would like it to behave this way: if no note is played, then the sustain pedal pressed, then the first note to be played should be with the attack part, and all subsequent played in legato mode.

    What do you think about it?

    Regards,
    Erik

  2. #2

    Re: feature request: legato

    Eric,

    You should wait until the attack of the first note of the phrase has been played before using the sustain pedal or drawing in cc 64. If you mistakenly press the pedal too soon, just move the cc 64 command back a little in your sequencing software. This way the attack of the first note sounds correct.

    Hope this helps,

    Karl

  3. #3

    Re: feature request: legato

    Karl,

    yes, I know how it works, but: Could you think of a situation, where you want the first note of a phrase or even one single note to sound without the attack? I can´t! So, if it would be changed the way I described, I wouldn´t have to bother, the phrase would always start correctly!

    thanks anyway!


    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Garrett
    Eric,

    You should wait until the attack of the first note of the phrase has been played before using the sustain pedal or drawing in cc 64. If you mistakenly press the pedal too soon, just move the cc 64 command back a little in your sequencing software. This way the attack of the first note sounds correct.

    Hope this helps,

    Karl

  4. #4

    Re: feature request: legato

    Quote Originally Posted by efreitag
    Could you think of a situation, where you want the first note of a phrase or even one single note to sound without the attack?
    thanks anyway!
    Actually, yes. I sometimes mix the GPO strings with GOS. For instance you may look back a number of pages, I think it was sometime in late October or early November, I posted a little excerpt from Peter and the Wolf, which I'm just finishing up now. I think I called it the Demise of the duck. In the sad little passage after the duck gets eaten there are some little string slides that join two not connected notes. These little slides are from GOS. In order to make the transitions smooth, the legato feature was used on the second note and the little GOS slide slipped in there perfectly.

    If GPO was programmed as you suggest I could not have executed the slide without removing the attack of that second note.

    I could also think of many nontraditional uses for a note with no attack. It's nice to have the option of the cc 64 command determining exactly when the legato begins.

    I can understand however, how you may feel, since I have often prematurely pressed down the sustain pedal, only to have to go back and change it later. But then I'm such a poor keyboard player that this is only a minor thing compared to the wrong notes and other major flaws in my playing.

    Cheers,

    Karl

  5. #5

    Re: feature request: legato

    If I may add a little too Erik?
    Using the "pedal legato" feature is really not much different than using the pedal for sustain in piano playing. You would push the pedal just "after" the first note of a phrase and hold it there, as long as the following notes harmonize, or until a new phrase begins. This same technique is how I use it with instruments other than piano. I simply release the pedal just "before" the next note where a player would typically need to take a breath.
    Sometimes while I am playing a legato part into the sequencer (if you look at the notes closely), many of them are not overlapped, so if this new idea was used, every note that had a beginning without an overlapped note ahead of it would have the full attack, and that just would not be right. The current design allows the user to hold it until a new phrase is desired. As usual, I have babbled too long,

    Erik, I do understand the idea, and it's a good one, but it would negatively affect the way the current feature works, and I love how it works now. Don't let these post that put a whole in your theory, keep you from posting any other ideas that you may have. Everybody here is learning something from someone
    I know I am!
    DPDAN

  6. #6

    Talking Re: feature request: legato

    Quote Originally Posted by DPDAN
    If I may add a little too Erik?
    Using the "pedal legato" feature is really not much different than using the pedal for sustain in piano playing. You would push the pedal just "after" the first note of a phrase and hold it there, as long as the following notes harmonize, or until a new phrase begins. This same technique is how I use it with instruments other than piano. I simply release the pedal just "before" the next note where a player would typically need to take a breath.
    Sometimes while I am playing a legato part into the sequencer (if you look at the notes closely), many of them are not overlapped, so if this new idea was used, every note that had a beginning without an overlapped note ahead of it would have the full attack, and that just would not be right. The current design allows the user to hold it until a new phrase is desired. As usual, I have babbled too long,

    Erik, I do understand the idea, and it's a good one, but it would negatively affect the way the current feature works, and I love how it works now. Don't let these post that put a whole in your theory, keep you from posting any other ideas that you may have. Everybody here is learning something from someone
    I know I am!
    DPDAN
    I can see your point, but I am still not convinced. Speaking from a pianist´s viewpoint, it´s a bit more complicated, because the sustain pedal basically has two functions: i) create sustain (so you can play two notes legato where you couldn´t do that with your fingers alone), and ii) create loudness. This is why the real name of the pedal is ´forte pedal´. So, as a pianist, (which I am), I use both: to create sustain, I do as you described, DPDAN. Play a note, and press the pedal afterwards. But, to create a forte sound, I press the pedal and hit the key(s) afterwards, so that all other strings of the piano can resonate with the notes hit.
    For me, it would allow for a little more laziness to program the pedal´s function like I described in the original post, because I don´t need it for loudness in GPO. So, if i saw a couple of individual phrases in my score, all to be played in legato, I could just press the pedal and forget about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DPDAN
    Sometimes while I am playing a legato part into the sequencer (if you look at the notes closely), many of them are not overlapped, so if this new idea was used, every note that had a beginning without an overlapped note ahead of it would have the full attack, and that just would not be right.DPDAN
    I think you´re wrong here, because the pedal doesn´t create sustain in GPO, but rather only suppresses the attacks, so if the notes don´t overlap, you get individual notes without attack sound, which as far as I know (and that´s not much) about string instruments, is impossible. If you wanted that sound, it should rather be achieved through low velocity values.

    Ok, all this is not worth all the fuzz I have made, it was just an idea that would make my work a tiny little bit easier. Maybe this could be made switchable in future versions, so "nontraditional uses for a note with no attack", as Karl said, whose point really makes sense, would still be possible? If not, so be it!

    Thanks for your comments! Have a nice day!

    P.S.: Karl, I´m gonna search for your "Peter und der Wolf"! Sounds interesting!

  7. #7

    Re: feature request: legato

    Karl, seems I´ll have to wait a bit for the duck...? Found the thread, but link dead. Looking forward to hear it some day!

    Erik

  8. #8

    Re: feature request: legato

    Quote Originally Posted by efreitag
    if no note is played, then the sustain pedal pressed, then the first note to be played should be with the attack part, and all subsequent played in legato mode.
    I think I misunderstood you when I responded to your idea Erik.
    You are simply saying that the first note even after the pedal is suppresed, would have full attack (relative to velocity) and all the notes after that for the duration of the pedal being applied would stay legato, yes?

    My point was that this technique would not be very applicable in sequencing where notes are so far apart, that they should have attack for the simulation of real live players. Hence you have to let go of the pedal sometime. Nonetheless, the user will have to decide what notes get it and what notes don't.

    Good thinkin' though Erik...
    DPDAN

  9. #9

    Re: feature request: legato

    Hi DPDAN!

    Quote Originally Posted by DPDAN
    You are simply saying that the first note even after the pedal is suppresed, would have full attack (relative to velocity) and all the notes after that for the duration of the pedal being applied would stay legato, yes?DPDAN
    Exactly! That´s my point!

    Quote Originally Posted by DPDAN
    My point was that this technique would not be very applicable in sequencing where notes are so far apart, that they should have attack for the simulation of real live players. Hence you have to let go of the pedal sometime. DPDAN
    I don´t understand what you´re saying, but I fear that´s due to my lack of english skills ;-)

    Never mind, I can work with it the way it is just as well!

    Erik

  10. #10

    Re: feature request: legato

    I have to point out the usefulness of my AutoLegato plug-in for those who can utilize MFX plugs (Cakewalk, Cubase SX/SL). So long as your notes overlap it plays legato but keeps the full attack of the first note. If you need a "breath space", just make sure the notes don't overlap.

    More useful to some than others, I suppose.

    - m
    Free MFX and other plugins: http://www.TenCrazy.com/
    Markleford's music: http://www.markleford.com/music/

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